Allow Divine Casters...

[the Jester]

Except it does for Clerics who get access to all spells they can cast.

I think BluWolf's point is that this needn't be the case.

In my low-magic game, for instance, clerics get a list of 8 or less spells known at each level, plus one domain's worth of spells to add to their list.

When you're tweaking the classes, sometimes it's good to tweak them in more than one way.

 

[BluWolf]

I think BluWolf's point is that this needn't be the case.

In my low-magic game, for instance, clerics get a list of 8 or less spells known at each level, plus one domain's worth of spells to add to their list.

When you're tweaking the classes, sometimes it's good to tweak them in more than one way.

Exactly. Spells and spell lists are a class feature like HD and armor. If you are going to adjust how one class feature works it may be prudent to see how this affects other class features in relation to over all pwoer level.

Spell lists are an often overlooked way to change the flavor of a setting. In my homebrew, most of the over the top video game return to life type spells have been changed to rituals (ala Relics & rituals) to raise the over all deadliness of the game. More of a setting thing than a class balance thing.

 

[Tinker Gnome]

My group does this with both Arcane and Divine spells. And it has worked fine.

 

[Spatzimaus]

I think BluWolf's point is that this needn't be the case.

Agreed, but then that should have been part of the original discussion; the only change mentioned in the original post was that divine spells could be cast spontaneously. If the players are allowed to retain the Cleric's unlimited list of known spells (as is clearly the case in Bagpuss' campaign, from the sourcebook comment), then I still say it's horribly overpowered. Even if your players aren't currently abusing the heck out of this, it's still broken at its core. And when people are saying "yes, it works fine in my campaign" but that's only because of some additional limitation, then that limitation should be in the response, because without it the implication is that the original concept isn't unbalancing.

If you restrict the Cleric to a small number of known spells, then you've just created a Divine offshoot of the Sorcerer with fewer spells/day but better HP, armor, and such. This actually isn't a bad idea, and is how I think the Druid should have been in the first place (making Druid and Sorcerer the "spontaneous" versions of Cleric and Wizard, respectively). Better yet, make a hybrid Druid/Sorcerer caster that picks spells known from either spell list, and uses both WIS and CHA for different things. But this isn't a minor tweak to the existing system, and would need a LOT of rebalancing. Spontaneous casting is a huge benefit to someone with limited spell slots, after all.

 

[LordBOB]

honestly i dont really care about clerics being able to spontaneously cause im thinking of another class........ PALADIN'S

I totally think that Paladins SHOULD be able to cast spontaneously for a few reason:

a) they only get access to a few spells!
b) They cant cast alot of spells a day!

So whos with me................?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

 

[Sgain]

What I do in my games is allow casters to use 0 through 2 level spells without 'memorizing' them. Both Divine and Arcane spell users get this advantage. 3rd level and greater require pre-preparing (except for healing based spells for Divine).

Prayer type spells for Divine never require preparing as they are the natural 'right' of clergy I feel.

It makes the characters more flexable at low levels, and still keeps them in balance as they get higher levels. My mage characters really like it as they are much more useful all the time now.

Also I let casters 'unmemorize' spells, they need 10 minutes per level of spell of unmemorizing to change higher levle spells. Again, this allows them more flexability during the game, of course if they are disturbed during this time they loose the spell slot for the day.

I haven't had any issues of balance with these rules (and I apply them to my bad guys too.

cya
Sgain

 

[Roadkill101]

I don't allow spontaneous casting for divine spells. The way I see it, a divine spell is a specific prayer in conjunction with an accompanying rite. Where such rites are defined as any somatic and material components, possibly in conjunction within certain circumstances or conditions, such as Ressurection can only take place on Hallowed Ground, etc. which may force the cleric to burn up other spells to create or meet said circumstances or conditions.

So the Church of Pelor the Prayer for Bless might run something like; "May the light of Pelor shine upon" while the cleric holds up his Holy Symbol to the person(s) being blessed. At the same time the same Prayer may be used as a standardized ritual during regular services, in which case the congregation may or may not be the beneficiaries of a Bless spell as determined by the intent of the person intoning the Prayer.

However, I do allow clerics to cast any spell from their list of known spells when needed instead of preparing spells ahead of time. This allows me as GM to control to some degree what spells a cleric may or may not know. I don't envision a cleric devoted to a deity of healing, having any great need to learn a Prayer for Cause Light Wounds, for example. And it also allows for minor plot hooks if a cleric has need to learn a particular spell, they may have to go to the ruined city Atlantis and find the Book of Cloisters to learn the prayer for Blade Barrier (written by Saint Barticus, the only known cleric of Pelor to have ever used the spell in the Church's history).

 

[Baragos]

What we do in our campaign is to let all spellcasters who prepare spells (mostly wizards, clerics, and druids) spontaneously cast Cantrips. And with one hours meditation or studying books, any uncast spell can be exchanged for a spell of the same or lower level.

Makes characters able to use spells like Augury and such without giving total flexibility in combat and such.

 

[RuminDange]

One of the changes I have been contemplating is allowing Wizards to use Spell Mastery to swap out any spell they have prepared to any spell they have mastered with this feat spontaneously to help off set the fact that clerics in my campaign have spontaneously casting based on wisdom for any spell on their list. This too me makes the spell mastery feat more useable to the wizard other than the “oh crap the DM took my books away” scenario. (Something I did once in the very beginning of my 5+ year campaign).

I already have rules in place to allow wizards the ability to gain spontaneous casting but not until epic levels. Just as I have rules to allow Sorcerer’s to gain a limited ability of preparing additional spells from books at epic levels. So far this has all worked out quite well for my high level high magic campaign world.


RD

 

[Enamel_32]

I'm with Mortis on this one. The Favored Soul, though lacking domain spells, is a spontaneous cousin of the cleric, and they get wings!