[ALLURIA PUBLISHING] Alluria Overhuals Products

[Asbestos]

Ah, I did it as a stealth update. If you run out of downloads, just email me, I'll give you more. Only people in this thread are going to do multiple downloads to get these edits. I'll send out a notification (and therefor extra download) when I am absolutely sure I am not making any more revisions for a while. I don't want to spam the customers too much just because the entobians are one of those "problem races".

Thanks again,

Awesome!
*downloads, reads through happily... notices something... goes back and checks the older versions... facepalms*
I must've read that power 10 times and not noticed... I would say that Silk Spray is decently balanced against the other racial attack powers in terms of its ability to hit things, its range, and what it does. However, all of the other racial attack powers are minor actions... Silk Spray is apparently a Standard action. Sorry I didn't mention this way earlier (like the 1st revision) but it seems like something worth mentioning.

 

[AngeltheTechrat]

Well.. Last week, I thought Remarkable Races was, frankly, the coolest thing I'd seen for 4E. And I really loved the Entobians. And...now I'm ready to give up on the whole thing.

Firstly, I'd like to appologise, because I'm going to pick things appart quite a bit in a big reply.. which...never comes off as friendly. Also because there was a line regarding silk spin/spray from the email with my DM that sound downright combative..

Secondly, I'd like to doubly appologise, because I already know I'm going to get pedantic at one point and I know how frelling annoying it is when people get pedantic.. but anyway...


I really.. REALLY liked the Entobians.. I only had a couple of questions and... well, I'm sorry I started asking them, since (to me, at least) it's like it all just led to ..here...

Huh... I definately don't like the percentages on difficult terrain movement. I mean.. I can understand if he's anti-grid spaces.. But most people do use grid movement (don't they?) and those percentages do NOT make movement simple.........

The way it without this power is 50% and 75%, is 60% and 90% that much more difficult? Refer to the chart at the bottom left of the PHB on page 261. I figured percentages would be easier that fractions. Just multiply the distance by .6 or .9 instead of .5 or .75.

Multiplying distance? Assuming 2 points of speed need to be burned for every square of movement in difficult terrain. We haven't run into it yet, though it looks like we should have, that you need to burn an extra point every third space moving uneven ground like.. well.. outside-and-not-on-a-road... I still don't know where the percentages are coming from, but I guess we have to convert the percentages back into speed-by-square ratios that the fractions represented? So.. 3/5 and 9/10, right..? 5 speed to move three spaces and 10 speed to move 9 spaces, which... would take a double-move to make relevant anyway.. It just means you ultimately lose only one square when you make a double move in uneven terrain.. Do you know where he's coming from with percentages (or even fractions) being simpler than just adding or subtracting speed in those conditions (depending on how one wanted to word it)?

I am leaving the terrain mechanics as is, as that is closest to what is in the players handbook. While it does translate to squares, this particular mechanic was intended for overland travel (miles). As it is just a secondary feature of this racial power, it is purposefully limited. A dwarf moving through extensive difficult terrain is just as complicated math as an entobian moving through the same terrain, the entobian just moves a lot faster.

Dwarves? What..? <looks at dwarves again> Dwarve's speed thing has to do with heavy load.. and it's a non-adjustment.. It says difficult terrain affects them normaly.

I really just think, the way it was phrased in the original entry "... and you may move 1 square faster in difficult terrain." was so very simpler..


Okay.. Anyway.. If it's something that only applies to overland movement now (because it doesn't say anything about overland movement in the entry), then.. sadly I can only point out one thing. The overland movement of any PC is the-speed-of-the-slowest-member-in-the-party. It's just true.

I.. kind of don't like the silk being an encounter ability now. That means you have to keep taking rests while spinning a rope..

Hmm.. and all of a sudden Big Spinner isn't as good, now that it leaves the silk powers more than half-neutered..

The silk powers were a bit over-powered as they were. They needed limits more in keeping with 4th edition. It is still a viable power.

(Edit: yes, this next bit is what I wanted to be a little extra appologetic over.. And yes, the end is delivered with a Lewis Black full-body twitch.)

How was silk rope "overpowered" as it was? What?!

With the new slow-things-down bit, if anything, it's more powerful now than it was before. I'm completely bewildered by the claim that it needed powered down.

Now, I do like the spray bit to slow things, but... in all honesty, that part could stand to be toned down a lot. For one thing, it could use a notation for the sake of realism that can only be used on creatures up to one size larger than the entobian. "Here, just let me squirt my butt at this gargantuan dragon..."

For the other thing.. actually, the saving throw to get out of it is sort of pushing it. To really bring it back in to the first-level power range, "(save ends)" needs to be changed to "until the end of your next turn", like so many other first-level powers that provide such an effect. Arguably, this might also even reel it back in to At-Will.. Arguably..

When it comes to Big Spinner, I agree with someone else who posted. It's weak-sauce. But I'll be perfectly honest here.. I'm looking at the feat as a means to keep the silk after metamorphosis, not as an enhancement for it at lower levels.. In that regard, it's even more weak-sauce, sadly... I really didn't want to have to wait until epic tier to metamorphose (or turn my deep-voiced bug into a female), but the silk is flat-out my favorit flavored ability of this race. Especialy adding a spray to the rope..

Hrm.. .. I think the Fragile Wings trait was simpler than the Surge of Flight powers...

The original flying mechanic has all sorts of power issues for PCs, and frankly I was inundated with emails telling me so, offering me detailed charts and statistics, and basically discrediting the entire product because "at will flying, especially with Hover, is FAR too powerful." I agree, in some rare circumstances and cases of radical min/maxing at-will flying can be unbalancing. Therefore, the new mechanic was designed to fix that. In many ways, if offers the same thing, but with a better flying speed.

This is all very true. At-will flying is unballanced at this point. Refashioning things into powers just grates on me, I guess. At least you did make flying an iffy situation in combat in the original version. After all, if you became bloodied while flying, you were headed for a crash. I guess I just figured that threat would keep people from overly abusing it, even though I really know it wouldn't.

In any case, I like to take an aside on something for a moment. Not another nit-pick at the file, but just a coment on the general anti-flying vibe in the game now. (Then why are there such nice aerial combat rules in the DMG now?) This is kind of like the over-land movement issue. If flying is concidered unballanced because a character can use it to circumvent an obstical, that still doesn't help all of the other non-flying members of a party get over that same wall. And if everyone wants to get over that wall bad enough that they find a way to get the rest of the party over it, the fact that one person happened to fly over doesn't mean a hill of beans to the party being on the other side. And if you're talking about going well off without the rest of the party? Well.. a PC that goes off on their own soon meets encounters ment for parties, not solos. The old joke about how Dragon's Lunchbox is another name for Full Plate comes to mind at this time.

Okay okay.. aside over..

I'm.. really not sure of the Farfalite's Flutter power as an encounter ability. I admit it was a bit too powerful as an at-will, but as an encounter, I don't see it every getting used, because you'd have to try to predict getting hit... It would've been better as an at-will that gives you a doge bonus to AC and Reflex. (Since you have to expend a move action and not move while using the power, I think as a bonus instead of the original 50% miss, it would still be balanced as an at-will power..

Flutter works until you are hit, or you move. It stays in effect until then. If using ranged attacks, it is very effective, and that is what it was basically intended for. Imagine flying up to the top of a tower, activatng flutter, and sniping targets knowing that their first strike against you would be at 50%) For a feat, thats pretty good, IMO.

Ah.. Alright. That works, then. It just wasn't clear. It would help if the text actually specified that Flutter can be sustained as a free action until it's effect is actually discharged by an attack.

The Coleophite's Hard Shell ability being changed from a handfull of extra hp to an encounter power (damage resistance) that you have to give up one of you class utility feats for..... ....

I feel the coleophite's power is much better than the glorified toughness feat that it used to be. This way you can go up and attack, then hunker down and take some massive blows in return. It can actually save a lot more hps than the other description gave you. And you can always take toughness if you want extra hitpoints.

Except now it's.. more complicated.. and a Power.. and.. ... much harder to balance.. (see next)

You now loose a class-given power when you metamorphose...?

Well, if you think about it, the metamorphosis feats used to give you THREE powers for one feat; that is a bit unbalanced when no other feat comes close to that. The way it adds up now: you trade silk for flying, you get mid-leg enhancement for free, and you trade a lower level class power for higher level feat power. It balances out much nicer now.

(apologeticaly pedantic soapbox) This applies not only to terminology in this thread, but also to terminology used in the file. No they don't give you three powers, they give you two. Every little feature is not a power. A power is a power. The stuff under the colored bars that are encounters and dailys and usually attacks.. Not just a modification to something already there.. (/apologeticaly pedantic soapbox)

Okay. Silk for flying. (still wishing to keep it via other feats, but accepting of the issue). The slight enhancement to Mid-Leg Attack did not used to be for free. It used to be in place of Expert Climber, which has become incorporated into Hexaped. But you know what? Even if it's free, who cares? Each of the morphs gets a boost to the mid-legs, but at paragon and epic levels, that's not a big damned deal. It balances itself, because as weapons, well.. you're never going to pick up +# forlegs anywhere in some dungeon. If you generaly use a weapon better than your mid-legs anyway, then it become at best a non-issue and at worst a redundancy. I just, honesly, don't see this as a balance concern.

When it really comes down to it, if the 'morph feats as they are have become too much as a single feat, why not break them up instead of canibalising class powers?
I still think having to lose a 6th or 7th level power in order to metamorphose is... obstructively bad. What? Are you "multi-classing" into your own race here? We all know how badly the multi-class rules hose you.. Breaking Metamorphosis feats into two would have been greatly preferable for upping their "cost". Making Hard Shell (.....), Flutter, Acid Spit, and Electric Burst feats with their respective Metemorphosis feats as requisits.. This would make them further abilities that must be learned after one 'morphs, with a second paragon feat. It's not out of the question to have two paragon feats available to a race. Remember, the entobians have an array, but none of them can take a second one of those feats. So why couldn't each one just be its own second, to complete the process?


In any case, I don't actually expect any of this to make a difference at this point in time. I've already thrown in the towel on the whole thing, but felt the need to complete this.. process, I guess.


I'd asked some big questions about Boggle too, but.. I pretty much dread how that's going to go now. I didn't realise this whole thing was a work-in-progress or some such. I thought I was just asking about possible errata. Given how I feel about the entobians now, I'm thinking it's probably safer if I stop bothering to think about a Boggle character, or even hoping for Anumi characters... Even after conceptualizing them, they can get sucked down the drain...

 

[Asbestos]

When it really comes down to it, if the 'morph feats as they are have become too much as a single feat, why not break them up instead of canibalising class powers?

Actually... I think the Drow might be of some worth mentioning here. They have two racial powers but can only use one of them per encounter. In paragon tier they get a feat that lets them use each one per encounter. I can see the Entobians getting Surge of Flight + X Racial Power after Metamorphosis but only being able to use one or the other in an encounter until they take Y Paragon Tier feat that lets them use both. This way, they get both powers and they don't eat up class powers, they just have to take yet another feat to fully master their new form.

 

[Paul_Klein]

I didn't realise this whole thing was a work-in-progress or some such. I thought I was just asking about possible errata.

But you are getting the errata. That's what he's doing. That's the wonderful thing about PDF publishing - the errata can easily be incorporated right into the document, and you're always allowed several free downloads. The Entobians obviously needed some revisions, and (in my opinion) you're getting the revisions in the most convenient possible form. And it's certainly not a work-in-progress, but instead a case where the mechanics needed to solve the unique in-game properties of the race got... wonky.

 

[Emberion]

Ok, I think I made the mistake of too many fingers in the pot. I have been trying to appease a lot of varied opinions on these guys and ended up making everyone unhappy with them in the process.

I will try to address all of your concerns.

Yes, silk spray should be a minor action. That was an oversight. Someone cast illusionary terrain on me or something. There I go reference 3E again.

The point of the distance multiplier is obviously getting missed, and seems to be massively confusing people. Happily, the problem is with WotC's rules on this one and not my own. Since they made something that is fairly confusing and apparently either no-one uses or no-one understands completely, I am going to wipe that off the plate too.

Yes, I sometime use the word powers for abilities, ..er features...er "things you can do"...I am just running out of words to describe things that don't refer to some special mechanic or specific rule. I will try harder in the future.

At this point, I am going back through the whole thing and releasing exactly what I feel is personally balanced. I apologize for the inconvenience.

 

[thundershot]

*looks around*

Have you considered breaking the 40' rope effect of the silk racial power off and making that just a racial feature instead?

I like Asbestos' idea of the way the Drow racial powers work. Replacing racial powers with class ones just doesn't sit well with me, either. You could also go the route of Channel Divinity, and have a few things you can use, but only one use counts as an encounter, and then combine that with the Drow one and create "add-on" feats to allow more uses. I don't know...

The overland movement was confusing people because they were thinking it was used for COMBAT, which is isn't...

 

[Emberion]

*looks around*

Have you considered breaking the 40' rope effect of the silk racial power off and making that just a racial feature instead?

I like Asbestos' idea of the way the Drow racial powers work. Replacing racial powers with class ones just doesn't sit well with me, either. You could also go the route of Channel Divinity, and have a few things you can use, but only one use counts as an encounter, and then combine that with the Drow one and create "add-on" feats to allow more uses. I don't know...

The overland movement was confusing people because they were thinking it was used for COMBAT, which is isn't...

Well, the new revision is in place now. It should appease just about everyone, though I am pretty firm on this one. I do not foresee any more revisions in the future.

Thank you everyone for your patience and input. I think collectively we made this a better product overall. At the very least, it has helped Alluria Publishing refine its collaboration methods with rules consultants and so on, so that this will not happen with future products.

 

[Asbestos]

Well, the new revision is in place now. It should appease just about everyone, though I am pretty firm on this one. I do not foresee any more revisions in the future.

Awesome! Like the prepare for metamorphosis feat. Its the feat cost of being able to use two racial powers in the same encounter, and its basically the durable feat up until you undergo metamorphosis.

There remains one *potential* issue. Under Hexaped the new movement rule is...
"In addition, enter difficult terrain without spending
an additional square of movement"
I would suggest...
"In addition, once per move action you may enter difficult terrain without spending an additional square of movement"
Which I believe is the intention (and what I would use), but the first would technically allow you to basically ignore difficult terrain.


Everything else is golden. I like the idea of a Coleophite, surrounded by enemies, making a close burst attack and then immediately hunkering down. If the wizard comes next in the initiative, even better, because then he just nukes the spot where the Entobian is and the beetle's resistance let's him shrug off a decent amount of the hurt. Man, love these dudes.

 

[Emberion]

Awesome! Like the prepare for metamorphosis feat. Its the feat cost of being able to use two racial powers in the same encounter, and its basically the durable feat up until you undergo metamorphosis.

There remains one *potential* issue. Under Hexaped the new movement rule is...
"In addition, enter difficult terrain without spending
an additional square of movement"
I would suggest...
"In addition, once per move action you may enter difficult terrain without spending an additional square of movement"
Which I believe is the intention (and what I would use), but the first would technically allow you to basically ignore difficult terrain.

Yeah, when they are preparing for the metamorphosis they eat a lot and are so healthy and full of organs (sorry inside joke).

Thank you, I've been wracking my brain for a better way to word that terrain issue. Its in a stealth update now.

Thanks again.

 

[Asbestos]

Yeah, when they are preparing for the metamorphosis they eat a lot and are so healthy and full of organs (sorry inside joke).

Thank you, I've been wracking my brain for a better way to word that terrain issue. Its in a stealth update now.

Thanks again.

No problem

Invader Zim joke?