Alt Sorceror Plans

[Technik4]

Ok, theres a feat that can let you cast without components, I figure the sorcerors that really care, get that feat. The other sorcerors' use the components, but probably justify it a different way. Maybe spiderwebs helps them remember the intricate hand motions required to cast a fireball, who knows?

My point is, specializing is an interesting option, that only wizards have access to. And while I feel sorcerors may view magic in a different way (ie-not really divided into schools, but effects. Battle Spells, Dark spells, Summoning Spells, etc) they should still be able to specialize.

And, I did consider giving them some similair abilities, like wizard specialists. But thats part of the problem. Imo, to wizards magic is sort of like math. Its a series of things you try to master over time, but it follows certain rules, and can be manipulated in very tried-and-true methods. Therefore they divide spells into schools, and can see the advantage of specializing into one type.

However, as a sorceror you probably didn't have any formal training, and you picked it up from a young age. Maybe you saw yourself as a dark sorceror, you were naturally drawn to it. Or maybe you never even considered manipulating magic to do anything besides attack or defend.

That was the basis of my specialty sorcerors, the different way they see magic on the whole. And as I said, they do deserve a couple more feats, but from different sources. And not as many. They also deserve a different spell list. I'm still working on that part, and it may be too radical for a regular d20 group.

I'd just like to reiterate that I do believe they are balanced to the extent we should accept balance. Its not 5 = 5, but its close enough to have fun. However, I think its easy to take away some things (like the huge spell list) and add others (3 extra feats at 1,10, and 20, couple more class skills, option to specialize).

Names for specialized Enchanter/Transmuter:
Shaper - Already a Psion name
Genomancer - Geno refers to genes, and if you meant Geo that means earth, neither of which really refer to this class (though I like the name Geomancer)
Alchemancer - I thought of just Alchemist, but it doesnt really apply, you get an image of turning lead into gold, or a potion maker more than a sorceror skilled at improving and enhancing things.
Changer - I like this but is almost too simple sounding
Alternator - Same thing, also sounds like a car part.
Variator - Don't really like the sound of this one, but Variancer sounds kinda neat.

Thanks for the name options, I'll leave it open for now, see if anyone else has suggestions.

technik

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Ok, theres a feat that can let you cast without components, I figure the sorcerors that really care, get that feat. The other sorcerors' use the components, but probably justify it a different way. Maybe spiderwebs helps them remember the intricate hand motions required to cast a fireball, who knows?

I know. But they must spend one of their feat for something that should be natural for them. Also, this will change the casting time of those spells, and that's not worth it.

Also, material components are given in the spell descriptions, so a sorcerer uses bat guano and sulfur for their fireballs, just like wizards. And I can't think of a way they found out that they need exactly that for the spell (they don't learn spellcasting on a college, it usually manifests in puberty, during times of stress, anger, or fear.)

 

[threefallentrees]

What this all boils down to is that the flavour of spells in general, and the sorcerer class in particular, are ill-matched to the mechanics.
I never liked the idea of various trivial material components that were such that they only provided observers a good way to identify spells. That was dumb. Ever since 2e, I've had the house rule that trivial components could be changed around freely, as long as any given character used one component consistently for a particular spell, and costly components were controlled a bit more rigorously, but not much.

In 3e, I extend this freedom to sorcerers, but not wizards, in addition to using a variant sorcerer class that fits in better with my feeling of the sorcerer, as the D&D flavor text describes him.
{/rant}

 

[Corlon]

I like the material component thing, because when a sorcerer casts it in moments of anger or fear, does he happen to have powdered horse hooves mixed with mud surrounded by a leather sack all incased in a cow bladder (not exactly it, but you get the point)? NO!

Or how about a feat that lets the sorc choose two meta magic feats that he can use without penalty or somethin, no, lets not do that, metamagic just isn't for sorcerers

I like using flavor (as the DM) with sorcerers, such as a random meteor storm from the 12 year old girl, and then she gets knocked out.

I like the idea of sorcerer feats, how about letting him use up a spell slot for a special ability, kind of like learning a newspell, but not quite.

Heres one normal sorc feat I thought of:
Improved Absorb Spell
prereques: Absorb Spell, CHA 15+
benefit: as absorb spell except the character may now add his CHA bonus to the will saves.

Absorb Spell is in Spells and Spellcraft.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

I like the material component thing, because when a sorcerer casts it in moments of anger or fear, does he happen to have powdered horse hooves mixed with mud surrounded by a leather sack all incased in a cow bladder (not exactly it, but you get the point)? NO!

Your point? Where, exactly, does that sorcerer learn that he must use "powdered horse hooves mixed with mud surrounded by a leather sack all incased in a cow bladder"? Was that standing in the will of his supernatural ancester he inherited his magic from?

Or how about a feat that lets the sorc choose two meta magic feats that he can use without penalty or somethin, no, lets not do that, metamagic just isn't for sorcerers

Many disagree. And it's something of a nice thing to decide that you need that spell stilled and silenced when you find yourself bound and gagged (which you usually don't know in advance, say, when you get up)

 

[Corlon]

oops, that didn't come out right

Your point? Where, exactly, does that sorcerer learn that he must use "powdered horse hooves mixed with mud surrounded by a leather sack all incased in a cow bladder"? Was that standing in the will of his supernatural ancester he inherited his magic from?

Exactly, he doesn't know, thats my point !

Many disagree. And it's something of a nice thing to decide that you need that spell stilled and silenced when you find yourself bound and gagged (which you usually don't know in advance, say, when you get up) [/QUOTE]

I'm not saying that metamagic is horrible for sorcerers, but it was more geered towards the wizard casters (or at least thats what I think), and so we shouldn't try to make metamagic better for the sorcerer because that would probably make him end up more like the wizard

 

[Jeph]

IMHO, wizards are the ones that should be stricken from the face of the . . . um . . . Oerth?

I mean, name one fantasy character (outside the DnD based novels) that sits down with a book and prepaires spells in the morning!

Does Gandalf? NO!

Does Alfred? NO!

Does Alvin? NO!

Does Q? (okay, he's more of a psi-guy. but, anywat . . .) NO!

Does ANYONE? not to my knowledge.

okay, just my bit of OTness.

 

[Telor]

Eschew Materials, as written is a Metamagic Feat.
So any sorcerer who takes this feat and plans to use it... all of his spells are a full-round action. Which is why few sorcerers would ever take it.

I'm the DM in my group and the only thing I'd change about the sorcerer is that they don't need any material components of any kind. (They could substitute XP for costly components).

The funny thing is (a little history lesson), when WotC playtested the PHB sorcerers did not use material components. No one to my knowledge protested this fact or submitted any problems in playtesting. Yet, when the PHB was published sorcerers were in the same boat as wizards.

-Telor

PS The Epic Feat Ignore Materials is not a metamagic feat so sorcerers could take that to forget about all of their components (well almost all) but it has a prereq: Eshew Materials. 2 Feats are not worth it, in my opinion.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

IMHO, wizards are the ones that should be stricken from the face of the . . . um . . . Oerth?

No, I don't think so. Many don't like them, but some do, and so let them stay. (Restrictions are for AD&D)

I mean, name one fantasy character (outside the DnD based novels) that sits down with a book and prepaires spells in the morning!

Does Gandalf? NO!

Well, he's a divine being. Mortal's rules aren't for them (at least not all).

Does Alfred? NO!

You mean the one from Discworld? Unless he's a Sourcerer (he ain't, at least AFAIK), he has to. Compared to Discworld, the D&D Wizards can be very happy: since they decided on the discworld that it always takes the same time to take the same thing done, be it by hand, magic or whatever, you usually need half a year or so to memorize that spell that creates a mansion out of thin air (or even longer). That's what keeps many from being wizards there: what's the use of spending 20 years learning that spell that lets nude virgins appear in your bedchamber if you don't know what to do with them afterwards?

Does Alvin? NO!

Don't know the guy.

Does Q? (okay, he's more of a psi-guy. but, anywat . . .) NO!

He's almighty. And Gay, of course

Does ANYONE? not to my knowledge.

okay, just my bit of OTness.

Preparing spells is a part of D&D and has always been. And it seems to work: in the playtest versions they all cast like sorcerers (which were not present at that stage) - even clerics. They changed it, creating Sorcerers to have at least one use of the system (which explains why his mechanics does not exactly match the concept, and has no own spell list). Unfortunately, they somehow used those playtest material in Po(o)R2.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Eschew Materials, as written is a Metamagic Feat.
So any sorcerer who takes this feat and plans to use it... all of his spells are a full-round action. Which is why few sorcerers would ever take it.

I'm the DM in my group and the only thing I'd change about the sorcerer is that they don't need any material components of any kind. (They could substitute XP for costly components).

The funny thing is (a little history lesson), when WotC playtested the PHB sorcerers did not use material components. No one to my knowledge protested this fact or submitted any problems in playtesting. Yet, when the PHB was published sorcerers were in the same boat as wizards.

-Telor

PS The Epic Feat Ignore Materials is not a metamagic feat so sorcerers could take that to forget about all of their components (well almost all) but it has a prereq: Eshew Materials. 2 Feats are not worth it, in my opinion.

I don't think it's right to waste a feat and cast everything as full-round action, only to cast as it should be anyway.

And wasting an epic feat (which could only be taken very late in your career) to do so without other penalties is not ideal either.