Alter self to fly

[Scion]

A character may only shape change into something they have actually seen before. Drawings in books and 'concepts' do not work.

This can both be a good rule and a bad one. On one hand it limits what the pc can use, usually down to acceptable limits.

On the other hand it is a problem when the dm says, 'well, I would like to use these guys that I made up/saw in magazine x/have in the module.. but once the pc sees them he'll be able to change into them' This either causes the dm to have to change a lot of things, or just ignore the idea.

On the same line as that however, if the dm never uses anything that is 'useful' in some circumstances the spell is effectively wasted. If everything you could ever want to change into is either not a valid creature from type, too big/small, too many hd, or even the dm saying no to the change what is the point? It would be just plain better to say, 'at levels x and above it can do these abilities, at levels y and above it can do these abilities, etc' or have the dm come up with a suitably varied list of things that can be changed into (something like the new command spell).

 

[Scion]

If I ever show up in my own game, I'll have to shoot myself.

NPC 1: Its a beholder!!!! run!!!
NPC 2: Somebody kill it!!! ::throws spear::

PC(in beholder form rolling into town): oops.. not again I must remember to change back before going to town! ::rolls out of town::

no eyestalk powers.. what sort of beholder is that?? sortof like those old ones that you hit and exploded into poisonous gas..lol

 

[Beholder Bob]

NPC 1: Its a beholder!!!! run!!!
NPC 2: Somebody kill it!!! ::throws spear::

PC(in beholder form rolling into town): oops.. not again I must remember to change back before going to town! ::rolls out of town::

no eyestalk powers.. what sort of beholder is that?? sortof like those old ones that you hit and exploded into poisonous gas..lol

Hey! I resemble that remark! And the only safe way to defeat a gas spore (exploding beholder) is with a blessed bolt of gassex.

 

[hong]

If you wanted to use Alter Self in order to fly, what would you turn in to (assuming you are a human to start)?

I say you can't. Wings are enough of a change from the basic humanoid body plan (two legs, two arms, one head) to merit a change in type, IMO.


Hong "avariel notwithstanding" Ooi

 

[monboesen]

What the change actually means is that Alter self users must focus on other aspects of the spell.

As it is no longer a cheap way of doing things (like flying and waterbreathing) at lower level than intended (as there are spells that deal with these kinds of movement at 3rd level), it is now more of a disguise/information gatherring type of spell.

With it you can easily infiltrate enemies of other races or maybe even impersonate a specifik individual(+10 to disguise checks as i remember it).

It could possibly be used to scare/intimidate people who are afraid of certain races/individuals.

It is still an open and at times very useful spell, but in the mechanics department it is mostly a AC buff (and possibly physical stats buff as orcs, gnolls, bugbears and the likes have good str, dex scores, but i don't remember if thats the case).

 

[Bauglir]

What the change actually means is that Alter self users must focus on other aspects of the spell.

As it is no longer a cheap way of doing things (like flying and waterbreathing) at lower level than intended (as there are spells that deal with these kinds of movement at 3rd level), it is now more of a disguise/information gatherring type of spell.

With it you can easily infiltrate enemies of other races or maybe even impersonate a specifik individual(+10 to disguise checks as i remember it).

It could possibly be used to scare/intimidate people who are afraid of certain races/individuals.

It is still an open and at times very useful spell, but in the mechanics department it is mostly a AC buff (and possibly physical stats buff as orcs, gnolls, bugbears and the likes have good str, dex scores, but i don't remember if thats the case).

Isn't that what Change Self is for?

 

[monboesen]

Yes Change self can be used for such things, but is more easily detected (as illusions have a chance of failing when interacted with, like shaking hands and realising that your fellow lizardman have very soft unscaly hands and so on)

Alter Selfs advantage to Change self is that it can be used both to disguise and to improve combat related stats (sometimes at the same time). Thus it is more versataile and higher level.

I guess my point is that I still think it is a good spell for its level and that granting flight or water breathing capabilities makes it so good that any sorcerer or bard should take it.

 

[XCorvis]

Isn't that what Change Self is for?

Yes, but remember that in 3.5 change self is now disguise self and is more limited in its effects. It makes you look like someone else (and they get a will save), whereas alter self actually MAKES you a different creature.

 

[Scion]

Yes, but remember that in 3.5 change self is now disguise self and is more limited in its effects. It makes you look like someone else (and they get a will save), whereas alter self actually MAKES you a different creature.

Sure, the person you are talking with will get a will save.. if they interact with some portion of the disguise that is untrue.. that is a big if! The vast majority of the time the person with disguise self should go through efforts to not be touched in areas that arent actually there. As in, if you are trying to look like another member of your own race who has similar height/weight to you there is almost never a will save at all. Bigger changes of course correspond to larger chances of exposure.

Alter self however is a full spell level up. It should be able to do more, and it does. In the past it was good for utility, you could change your appearance but needed 'change self' to look exactly like what you were going for, or at least finishing details. Also in the past alter self had a much shorter duration and a much lesser effect than those other spells that are mentioned.. it was a great utility spell.

I am actually surprised that it made the change up to 3.5 without being killed. Most other utility spells (ie good for more than one thing) were spread out into lots of other spells, and in my opinion ruining the flavor behind those spells.

This spell, as currently written, can be over or underpowered depending on the dm. I would have much prefered it to just make your form maleable enough to approximate gross physical qualities within a certain range (granting certain abilities if modeled appropriately), required disguise self for finishing touches if trying to impersonate someone/another race, and had a limit on how many extra abilities you could gain at one time.. with lists.. It would have kept the power level right, made it very intersting, and not had people worry about it being under/over powered.. ahh well.. maybe someday!

 

[CalrinAlshaw]

I believe the Alter Self spell in there mentions something about not allowing the player to use a third limb if they changed into a humanoid with one for extra fighting skill etc. And movement doesn't change as well I thought. So I think that would apply to flying and such.

Calrin Alshaw