Alter Self too powerful?

[jgsugden]

Alter Self is NOT Polymorph self. It does not affect "attack rolls, natural armor bonus, and saves," to quote from the SRD. At most it can give you a Fly speed of 30' or gills, I'd guess natural attacks are on par with that. However, it does not allow you to completely assume the form of another creature.

EDIT: But Alter Self rocks anyway, just because it lets my barbarian/sorcerer turn into a winged jet black demon with glowing red tattooes.

Uhhhhh ... 3.5 alter self specifically gives natural armor bonuses. Check out the 3.5 PHB.

 

[Nail]

It's your Hat of Disguise that makes the Alter Self so good. Without it, you are stuck with, at the very least, role-playing penalties.

Besides, given the duration, this is hardly more than a one (or possibly two) combat spell.....

 

[Nail]

Alter Self is NOT Polymorph self. It does not affect "attack rolls, natural armor bonus, and saves," to quote from the SRD.
.....

EDIT: But Alter Self rocks anyway, just because it lets my barbarian/sorcerer turn into a winged jet black demon with glowing red tattooes.

Sorry, but a big NO! on both counts.

"You acquire the physical qualities of the new form while retaining your own mind. Physical qualities include natural size, mundane movement capabilities (such as burrowing, climbing, walking, swimming, and flight with wings, to a maximum speed of 120 feet for flying or 60 feet for nonflying movement), natural armor bonus, natural weapons...."

You cannot "turn into a winged jet black demon, either.

"You assume the form of a creature of the same type as your normal form."

Demons are not Type: humanoid. Presumably your character is. Is your Bbn/Sor an Outsider? If so, you have a nice DM.

 

[reapersaurus]

I prefer Lizardman form for my Thunderbeast-cleric personally.
It only has one less AC, but fits the character much more, and Lizardmen are WAY cooler than stinky Troglodyte's.

Yes, Alter Self is overpowered.
Even without a core flying form.

 

[Jeph]

Sorry, but a big NO! on both counts.



You cannot "turn into a winged jet black demon, either.



Demons are not Type: humanoid. Presumably your character is. Is your Bbn/Sor an Outsider? If so, you have a nice DM.

I was using the 3.0e srd. I play in a 3.0e game. In 3.0, Alter Self affects only aesthetics, nothing else. I didn't notice that this was about 3.5. So sue me.

 

[Thanee]

I don't like the new Alter Self. The 3.0 version was so cool, now it's only good to gain combat bonuses.

BTW, the head of disguise doesn't cover your troglodyte smelliness!

Bye
Thanee

 

[FoxWander]

I don't like the new Alter Self. The 3.0 version was so cool, now it's only good to gain combat bonuses.

BTW, the head of disguise doesn't cover your troglodyte smelliness!

Bye
Thanee

Except that the smell is one of those "extraordinary special attacks" you don't gain.

Oh, and Jeph- if you switch to 3.5 and still want to do the demon look, then copy a Fey'ri. I believe they're still humanoids. The black skin and tattoos are those "minor physical qualities" you can freely designate as you wish.

 

[The Souljourner]

Smellyness is an extraordinary ability not granted by alter self, actually. All you get is gross physical qualities (not that kind of gross!) of the form, including size, natural movement, natural armor, natural weapons, racial skill bonuses, and racial bonus feats.

So... I'm the least smelly troglodyte in the game (except for everyone else using alter self to become one).

-The Souljourner

 

[ayrwind]

Smellyness is an extraordinary ability not granted by alter self, actually. All you get is gross physical qualities (not that kind of gross!) of the form, including size, natural movement, natural armor, natural weapons, racial skill bonuses, and racial bonus feats.

So... I'm the least smelly troglodyte in the game (except for everyone else using alter self to become one).

-The Souljourner

Actually, if i was the DM, i would rule that the altered trog would be smelly, just not smelly enough to create the effects that requires the fort saves, etc. yup, a stinky bard!

 

[two]

Actually, this spell might make a melee-style bard viable.

I've never seen one played, nor played one myself, but a +6 natural armor boost coming at level 4, plus mutiple attacks, is pretty ok. Makes up for a d6 if you are paying attention to your AC in other ways. No, you won't be a raging barbarian, but with your bard song, you might actually consider the 2-handed route. Plow all "bard song" "to-hit" bonuses straight into power attack, and you should be doing some very OK damage. Plus, other spells can be fun in melee (mirror image, etc.)

A melee bard with some good 10 min/level spells up (alter self, mirror image) could last a LOOOONG time in battle, making up for lesser damage output.

Hm... might actually want to try this one out myself...