Altering the cleric to fit a non-war god

[Irda Ranger]

Disclaimer: I think the cleric in the PHB is awesome, and one of my favorite classes (wow, what a difference from 2e). However, it seems a lot more appropriate for Clerics of Heironeus and Hextor than some other Gods on the list.

I am making a Neutral Good cleric of Fharlaghn with the domains of Travel and Protection. He is an intinerant who always in on the roads, giving help to travelers. Later on I may take a couple levels of Bard or Ranger.

Either way, the whole "Heavy Armor, Heavy Shield, Heavy Mace" cleric thing really doesn't seem to suit him, or at least my view of him. I was wondering if anyone out there had some input on what some fair trade offs might be. So, here are my thoughts.

1) Don't change the weapon selection. I am already limited to simple weapons and would not be willing to reduce that to Monk or Wizard weapons.

2) Definately get rid of Heavy Armor, probably Medium Armor too. What about shields? Where do they fit in? I think it would be ok to keep shields, as I am not a Wizard or Monk, and every other class (like rogue, ranger and bard) can use them.

3) Are there any arguments for or against keeping the Good Fort save progression? What would you trade that for?

4) Keep the BAB the same. Although he's not the "warrior" type priest, someone who is on the road a lot still needs to know how to defend himself when things get tight.

Lastly) What benefits do you think would be fair to receive in return for giving this up? An additional domain? 4 Skill P/ lvl? Something more "travel" related, like a Barbarian's increased movement? Maybe expand the skill list a little?

All comments appreciated. Thanks a lot!!

Irda Ranger

 

[Crothian]

Personally, I'd let you get rid of heavy and medium armor and replace them with the feats Endurance and Run.

 

[bensei]

On the House Rules messageboards there are some threads on new cleric variants (may be already a couple of days old, so you would have to scoll down). It may provide help. Also in the Umbragia setting there is whole upcoming book with cleric vaiants, which have much more than just domains and one ability depend on their god. You can find the first draft here .

Further ideas for iternitant clerics would be:
- give them bardic knowledge (stacking with levels as bard)
- give him more skill points and more class skills (some dex-skills)

If you want someone of a travelling preacher type, you could also give him a wizards' BAB, and give him 1 more spell in each slot (or any other beter spell casing) and social skills as class skills.

 

[Irda Ranger]

Thanks for the input. Crothian, I think you're right about trading Feats for Feats. That would help keep things even. Not sure that Run and Endurance are a fair trade for Medium and Heavy Armor though, though its a good place to start.

What about the good Fort save? Do you think it would be fair to trade that in for 4 skill points / level. The skill list is fine the way it is to make my concept.

Irda Ranger

Edit ---> Bensei, I found that other thread. Very insightful, thank you. I didn't want to go to the effort of changing the spellcasting system though. Too much work

 

[DerianCypher]

well, you could do this without to drastically changing the cleric class.

First off, you want to put one of your higher stats into dex and wear light or medium armor. Really, who travels in full plate if you don't have to?

Second, perhaps trade Hvy. Armor Prof. for either an increased movement rate (say 40ft. instead of 30ft.) or add a few class skills.

uhm, well, that's all I can think of. I'll post more if I come up with more

 

[Amator]

A few ideas:

Swap out the good Fort saves for good Reflex saves as it plays up the strengths of a cleric of Fharlangn.

I'd swap out medium and heavy armor proficiency for either Dodge and Mobility or Fast Movement 10 and Endurance.

Change your skills around so you get Knowledge: Geography. Swimming and Climbing may also come in handy for the faithful of Fharlangn.

Make sure you check out sources for alternate spells that are more like what your cleric would use.

It might be munchkin, but I'd see if I could trade the turn undead ability for being able to use Haste(1rd per caster lvl) the same number of times per day as you could turn. I can see the church of Fharlangn developing this use of divine channeling rather than using it for the traditional turning of undead.

 

[Irda Ranger]

A few ideas:

Swap out the good Fort saves for good Reflex saves as it plays up the strengths of a cleric of Fharlangn.

I'd swap out medium and heavy armor proficiency for either Dodge and Mobility or Fast Movement 10 and Endurance.

Change your skills around so you get Knowledge: Geography. Swimming and Climbing may also come in handy for the faithful of Fharlangn.

Make sure you check out sources for alternate spells that are more like what your cleric would use.

It might be munchkin, but I'd see if I could trade the turn undead ability for being able to use Haste(1rd per caster lvl) the same number of times per day as you could turn. I can see the church of Fharlangn developing this use of divine channeling rather than using it for the traditional turning of undead.

That's some great advice! I am not sure how balanced that last thing about Haste is, but I do really like it. Combine that with the Travel Domain's Free Action 1 rd./ day/ level and you can get out of most things I guess

Fast Movement 10 and Endurance are spot on, I think I would like to go with that. I have Relics & Rituals, so I will look there for more "Fharlagn"-y type spells. If anyone has any suggestions, please shoot.

I will bring these ideas to my DM (the wife ) and keep you posted. Thanks.

Irda Ranger

 

[Grraf]

Its funny. I struggled with this in a completely different fashion and wound up creating this class

http://www.grayskies.net/graf/SL/The_Priest_npc_class.htm

One thing I'd be concerned with is the role of the cleric in a game. Its nice to have a strong fighting character, with good movement abilities, high skills and powerful spell casting. When I was a player I constantly psuhed to do these things.
As a DM I find that
1. the cleric is already the most versatile class with a lot of combat power in differenet situations
2. its important in a game to have character balance. its good that the PCs see each other as the source of valuble abilities they possess.
3. I don't mean to discourage peoples creativity) but you can usually get the kind of character someone wants by mixing classes. How about a level of barbarian? The high skills and fast movement is there, as is the light armor requirement.

To play devils advocate:
Many characters don't use all aspects of their class to their fullest. There are a lot of high-dex fighters who don't use heavy armor. I have two arcane spellcasters in my game who refused familars because they felt it was out-of-character. I'm fine with their characters not calling a familar. I accepted one of the PCs arguements that his character wouldn't know how to call a familar at all. But I wouldn't give him something for that.

Without lowering the clerics strengths significantly (hit points, bab, spells & saves) its hard to for me to see giving the special abilities (fast movement, or lore) of other classes.
With granted powers providing additional class skills giving clerics extra skillpoints strikes me as possibily unbalancing (whatever that means).

I'm not sure how a traveling priest would be less hardy than a cleric. if your -character- is weaker thats a low con. are all the god of travel's clerics really weaker than, say, Oghma's clerics? (sorry really don't spell GH stuff well)
A fort save or armor proficency are basically feats. most of the stuff you want (extra skill points, fast movement) aren't availible as feats. As a DM that would set off warning bells.

 

[Crothian]

Thanks for the input. Crothian, I think you're right about trading Feats for Feats. That would help keep things even. Not sure that Run and Endurance are a fair trade for Medium and Heavy Armor though, though its a good place to start.

Medium and Heavy armor are not worth anything for to a player that's not going to use them. So, I suggest you trade them for two weaker feats, or one average feat. All feats are not created equal.

 

[hong]

Ooo, another alt.cleric thread, which means I get to pimp my priest class again:

http://www.zipworld.com.au/~hong/dnd/priest.htm

It's basically the OA shaman with a different pool of bonus feats, some slightly rejigged special abilities, and the cleric spell list.