Just wondering if anyone else is using the alternate classes presented in Unearthed Arcana instead of the base classes. I refer to the Warrior, Expert and Spellcaster classes. I am developing a new campaign and seriously considering using these in place of the various classes in the PHB and other books. I figure that between this, the spell point system, and the fact that I am killing the difference between Divine and Arcane Magic, it should be an interesting campaign. But I was wondering what other success or horror stories might be out there using these classes.
Alternate Classes in UA
- Thread starter Boss
- Start date
bento
Explorer
I'm using the three classes, but not from the UA book. Instead my group is using True20, which uses the three core classes (adept, expert & warrior).
I like it (and my players are beginning to appreciate) because there isn't the strict class feats ladder when you advance in level. One of the things that I always thought was strange was how the rules dictated that once a player reaches x level they suddenly gain y feat. Does every monk go to the same school and learn the same feats in the same level progression?
In this system, if the player reaches a new level, and gains a new feat, they can select one that makes the most sense to them at that point. There are, of course, some feats that have prerequisites, but for the most part, more control over character development is placed in the hands of the player rather than the RAW.
For the adept in True20, there is no division between divine and arcane, just a long list of potential supernatural powers. Your role as GM is to specify the powers to be used in the adventure (or leave it open if you wish).
I suggest you check out True20 if you like this more generic, build from the bottom-up type of character creation.
I like it (and my players are beginning to appreciate) because there isn't the strict class feats ladder when you advance in level. One of the things that I always thought was strange was how the rules dictated that once a player reaches x level they suddenly gain y feat. Does every monk go to the same school and learn the same feats in the same level progression?
In this system, if the player reaches a new level, and gains a new feat, they can select one that makes the most sense to them at that point. There are, of course, some feats that have prerequisites, but for the most part, more control over character development is placed in the hands of the player rather than the RAW.
For the adept in True20, there is no division between divine and arcane, just a long list of potential supernatural powers. Your role as GM is to specify the powers to be used in the adventure (or leave it open if you wish).
I suggest you check out True20 if you like this more generic, build from the bottom-up type of character creation.
My next campaign is going to use the 3 generic classes from UA, as I think they fit my desired concept for my homebrew campaign world. As the campaign world is roughly based on our own Earth (for details, click the link in my sig) I have wanted to run campaigns in various time periods (i.e. Ancient Terra, Modern Terra and even Future Terra). The existing D&D classes just don't, imho, cross these eras properly and I just didn't like the feel of some of the d20 Modern classes. I'm hoping that the generic classes will make this possible.
For the spellcaster I'm not doing away with the line between arcane and divine, however in Terra simply being able to cast spells requires a feat, the exact feat determining the "type" of spellcaster you are.
I'd tell you I'd let you know how it goes, but I've just started an Age of Worms campaign and thus my next campaign (using said classes) won't be for a bit.
For the spellcaster I'm not doing away with the line between arcane and divine, however in Terra simply being able to cast spells requires a feat, the exact feat determining the "type" of spellcaster you are.
I'd tell you I'd let you know how it goes, but I've just started an Age of Worms campaign and thus my next campaign (using said classes) won't be for a bit.
Thanks Bento, I will take a look at True20. I've heard good things about it, but just haven't tried it myself yet. The adept sounds interesting. But from the sounds of it, how much is truly player controlled and how much is GM controlled. I am not sure that I, as a player, would want what power I worked for to be determined by the solely by the GM for an adventure. I may not be fully understanding what you are saying though. (heh, I know, get the book 
)
DiamondB, One of the things I have considered doing is revamping prestige classes so that they are available MUCH earlier than normal, to give the players specifics to aim towards. For instance, there are different forms of martial arts, each one giving a bonus as a feat. Then they can study a specific school further by taking a prestige class associated with that school (say, starting at 3rd or 4th level). I think this runs pretty close to the idea of advanced classes in D20 Modern.
As for the magic, I merged it all into one type so that there aren't extra spellcaster classes running around, and to simplify things because it gets a whole lot more difficult with the magic house rules I am developing. I am using a gemstone based system I came up with in a 2nd edition campaign (same campaign actually, just moving it to D20, this was prior to the Demonwars Saga by Salvatore). In this system, you only start with four schools of magic. You can then use your bonus feats (which will be increased from the UA version) to acquire additional schools, specialize in schools, and take domains if the caster wishes. This is very much a work in progress and will give the player lots of choices... maybe too many choices. But that is why I am giving myself a lot of time before I start passing out info to players.
Thanks for the input! I really hope to get some good ideas from this thread to work into the campaign world.
)DiamondB, One of the things I have considered doing is revamping prestige classes so that they are available MUCH earlier than normal, to give the players specifics to aim towards. For instance, there are different forms of martial arts, each one giving a bonus as a feat. Then they can study a specific school further by taking a prestige class associated with that school (say, starting at 3rd or 4th level). I think this runs pretty close to the idea of advanced classes in D20 Modern.
As for the magic, I merged it all into one type so that there aren't extra spellcaster classes running around, and to simplify things because it gets a whole lot more difficult with the magic house rules I am developing. I am using a gemstone based system I came up with in a 2nd edition campaign (same campaign actually, just moving it to D20, this was prior to the Demonwars Saga by Salvatore). In this system, you only start with four schools of magic. You can then use your bonus feats (which will be increased from the UA version) to acquire additional schools, specialize in schools, and take domains if the caster wishes. This is very much a work in progress and will give the player lots of choices... maybe too many choices. But that is why I am giving myself a lot of time before I start passing out info to players.
Thanks for the input! I really hope to get some good ideas from this thread to work into the campaign world.
The UA versions are a nice idea, but not very well executed IMHO. When we tried 'em out, we found some balance wonkiness (the Expert in particular seems to lag behind the other two) and the conversion of class abilities to feats is relatively incomplete.
True20's implementation of the same basic idea is pretty good, and for the Warrior and Expert not too hard to convert to D&D. The Adept takes more work because of the different magic system, you'd need to take away some of their feats and give them a spellcasting progression.
Another option for more generic classes is d20 Modern's approach, with six basic classes loosely based on the six abilities. The big disadvantage is there's no 1st level spellcasting class (spellcasting is restricted to "advanced" classes, which you can generally qualify for by about third level), so it'd either require some retooling if that's an important consideration or a campaign style where spellcasting is less common than in D&D.
True20's implementation of the same basic idea is pretty good, and for the Warrior and Expert not too hard to convert to D&D. The Adept takes more work because of the different magic system, you'd need to take away some of their feats and give them a spellcasting progression.
Another option for more generic classes is d20 Modern's approach, with six basic classes loosely based on the six abilities. The big disadvantage is there's no 1st level spellcasting class (spellcasting is restricted to "advanced" classes, which you can generally qualify for by about third level), so it'd either require some retooling if that's an important consideration or a campaign style where spellcasting is less common than in D&D.
luke_twigger
First Post
My group have been using the Generic Class rules from UA (also available for free at d20srd.org). We quickly realised that very few class abilities had been converted into feats so spent time house-ruling most of the others.
So far we have 2 PCs using these rules in our current campaign (alongside "normal" PCs) and we're very much liking the freedom of choice. However they do seem underpowered relative to regular PHB classes - but I think that's the price you pay for flexibility.
Our house-rules are found here:
http://www.rodinia.info/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1132858361/0#0
So far we have 2 PCs using these rules in our current campaign (alongside "normal" PCs) and we're very much liking the freedom of choice. However they do seem underpowered relative to regular PHB classes - but I think that's the price you pay for flexibility.
Our house-rules are found here:
http://www.rodinia.info/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1132858361/0#0
bento
Explorer
Boss said:Thanks Bento, I will take a look at True20. I've heard good things about it, but just haven't tried it myself yet. The adept sounds interesting. But from the sounds of it, how much is truly player controlled and how much is GM controlled. I am not sure that I, as a player, would want what power I worked for to be determined by the solely by the GM for an adventure. I may not be fully understanding what you are saying though. (heh, I know, get the book
True20 is a generic system, so you can play most any kind of game using it's rule set. Sci-fi, fantasy romance (Blue Rose), horror, etc. Because it's generic, some skills, feats and powers really won't be applicable to every setting.
In the current game I'm GMing (Oriental Adventures), I specified three roles Adepts can follow. The first is a Shugenja, which has a strict code of power progression. The second is Spirit Shaman, which has a set of powers they access at specific levels, but is more open. Third is the Wu Jen, which can take most any power at any level they want to.
I specified these roles to my players because I see magic being used in different ways in my setting, and each role takes a different outlook to utilizing it. Shugenja believe in order, and there for believe in a natural progression of obtaining magical power (we must learn to crawl before we can run). The Spirit Shaman is a conduit to the spirit world, so they focus on powers to make this happen. The Wu Jen sees the chaos of the world and grapples with power (magic) in any form they can access.
Some GMs might be proscriptive like this, or may let you do whatever you want. Personal taste and all...
Hmmmmm, Okay, True20 is definitely on my list to check out and see if it will work for my group.
Luke_twigger, thanks much for the link, that will definitely take some of the work I was prepping to do out of the way. Some of the more specialized classes (like Monk, where various martial art styles will act as prereq feats to go into the Prestige Class) are going to become a basis for several prestige classes with their class abilities going there, but this helps immensely. Thanks!
SWBaxter, I considered the D20 Modern approach, but it was going to take a lot of reworking to go with my specific campaign world, so it kinda got thrown out to the side (the world is VERY magic oriented, in the 2nd edition campaign, it centered around the use of gemstones and control of the various mining towns by the mages guild).
Luke_twigger, thanks much for the link, that will definitely take some of the work I was prepping to do out of the way. Some of the more specialized classes (like Monk, where various martial art styles will act as prereq feats to go into the Prestige Class) are going to become a basis for several prestige classes with their class abilities going there, but this helps immensely. Thanks!
SWBaxter, I considered the D20 Modern approach, but it was going to take a lot of reworking to go with my specific campaign world, so it kinda got thrown out to the side (the world is VERY magic oriented, in the 2nd edition campaign, it centered around the use of gemstones and control of the various mining towns by the mages guild).
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