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Alternate Currency Systems

DamionW

First Post
Looking at the trading items thread in the general discussion forum and extrapolating to my Elemental Campaign World:

http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=148570

I wanted to know who has made variant currency systems for their homebrews with regional currencies? Specifically, when I have some lands ruled by Earth creatures, gold pieces make sense. However, when I have Fire Realms which are primarily volcanic, obsidian shards make more sense as a trading medium. In the Water realms, small rough pearls would work better, and in the Air Realms (which are primarily sandy deserts and savannahs), they would use rock quartz and/or glass pieces. Who else has developed systems like this and how did you get them to work? Thanks for the help.
 

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Anyone? No thoughts? Is a simple 2 obsidian pieces = 1 gp = 1/2 quartz piece = 1/4 pearl piece kind of relationship sufficient? Is this too much effort for setting continuity? Would exchange rates flux? I'm sure someone out there has experience with this...
 

DamionW said:
Anyone? No thoughts? Is a simple 2 obsidian pieces = 1 gp = 1/2 quartz piece = 1/4 pearl piece kind of relationship sufficient? Is this too much effort for setting continuity? Would exchange rates flux? I'm sure someone out there has experience with this...

The problem I see*isn't* with your conversion rates,but that the materials you are using shouldn't be used as a form of currency because of their commonality to their environment - obsidian would be quite abundant in a firey realms - why would someone want to use it as money since it isn't worth much? The only reason gold works in a "standard" campaign world is that it doesn't grow on trees nor can it be found by picking up a rock at random - it has to be found and mined.
 

Well, you could really balance it however you want. There are just a couple practical issues to keep in mind.

In the real world, pretty much every society wanted gold. It's shiny and pretty, and all that. So, no one questioned that gold coins had value. Even when societies switched to a more abstract paper-currency system, those bills were still backed by hard currency, somewhere. (It's only in the past century or so that we gave that up.)

So first, what gives these items of currency their value? Metal coins have value because worked, pure metals were ALWAYS valuable due to the time and effort of extraction, forging, etc., and that if need be the metals could be used for other things. For the others, this just doesn't work; if pearls are the sole currency for your Water cultures, why be anything other than an oyster farmer? If obsidian is the sole commodity, then anyone who travels to a volcano becomes rich. Commodities in general require their source to be rare/dangerous/distant to be of value. In the middle ages in Europe, pepper was worth its weight in gold, literally, because it was so difficult to get a large supply that far away from the source, and because as a grown product the amount being produced was limited. This isn't true of obsidian or quartz.

Second, there's the issue of cross-culture valuation. How much is a pearl worth to your Earth creatures, for instance? Would they value it at all? And if the currency is something available all over the place (like your quartz idea), this could cause problems. An Earth race who digs up a ton of quartz would destroy the Air races' economy.

There are two ways I can see this working:
1> The "currency" system. If the currency is actually WORKED materials, something more complex than the typical peasant could make. This could be a government thing; in the later Roman Empire, stamped gold coins could only be made by the Emperor; sure, other people had gold, but only the solidus coin had the set value merchants could trade in. This could work for obsidian, but not as easily for pearls. This is almost the same as if you use the currency simply as a representation, backed by hard currency somewhere else. So, if 1 pearl = 4 gp, it's because some government or bank has 4 gp stashed away for each pearl it issues.

2> The "commodity" system. If every civilization officially uses some widely-accepted currency (gold, silver, etc.), but internally uses a more relaxed system by trading a commodity. This works because the commodity being traded (like the pearls) holds a relatively constant value in its own right.

I'll give an example of what I mean. I play GuildWars, which has a simple 1 pp = 1000 gp currency system. High-level players who want the cool-looking armor all need two rare ingredients: Ectoplasms and Obsidian Shards. These items are only found in two places, and are pretty rare, so they tend to cost about 10pp and 4pp each, respectively, and the prices have stayed constant for the past month or so since players are using them to make the armors at the same rate they enter the economy. Now, when someone sells an expensive item in-game, it's become accepted that people can pay at least partially in Ectos at a 10:1 ratio, since the game doesn't allow cash trades of over 100pp. So, even though the system is officially a coin-based system, everyone has accepted that a commodity that holds its value constant is an acceptable substitute, especially since many of those players would have used the cash to buy Ectos anyway.

So anyway, to sum up what I think you should do:
Earth: Metals are fine.
Fire: Obsidian as a commodity doesn't work, because of the huge easily-available supply. But finely-carved obsidian coins would work.
Water: Pearls can be used as an internally-traded commodity. Outside of the Water races, though, only a few groups would value them nearly as much.
Air: For this, I'd actually suggest going to a pure barter system for day-to-day stuff, and possibly have them use everyone else's currencies for external trading.

But if you want to ignore all this and just pick an exchange rate for each, you can use whatever you want.
 

3catcircus said:
The problem I see*isn't* with your conversion rates,but that the materials you are using shouldn't be used as a form of currency because of their commonality to their environment - obsidian would be quite abundant in a firey realms - why would someone want to use it as money since it isn't worth much? The only reason gold works in a "standard" campaign world is that it doesn't grow on trees nor can it be found by picking up a rock at random - it has to be found and mined.

I've thought about that, but then it comes to the converse: If a society is based on being out in the ocean or on the open savannah plains, why would they use gold as their trading medium? They can't mine it themselves and some cultures are antagonistic to the Earth cultures that would mine it at all. The gem table includes obsidian, pearls and rock quartz as 50gp + gems, so I figured if you increased the commonality of them, they'd make adequate currency forms if they were refined in a certain way (maybe obsidian shards cleaved only in a certain pattern, or something like that.) I just don't like the idea of certain lands where gold mines are more common dictating the currency flow for the entire rest of my campaign world. I just don't know the best work-around yet.
 

DamionW said:
The gem table includes obsidian, pearls and rock quartz as 50gp + gems, so I figured if you increased the commonality of them, they'd make adequate currency forms if they were refined in a certain way (maybe obsidian shards cleaved only in a certain pattern, or something like that.)

Gems are fine as a currency. Obsidian isn't a gem. It's a natural glass, and calling it "common" in volcanic regions is an understatement. It's everywhere, laying there on the surface; go to any national park containing a volcano and you can probably find a softball-sized chunk (note: it's usually illegal to take these away). And you can't really cut it like a normal gem, because it's a glass; it has flow patterns in it you can break it along, instead of the cleavage planes normal gems would have, but you can't control this nearly as well.

Obsidian had value in primitive cultures for two main reasons, as far as I know:
1> It looked nice. (While this applies to most gems, too, most real gems have some other benefit. Diamonds, for instance, are extraordinarily hard and so can be used for other purposes.)
2> When broken, it could make very sharp edges (like I said, it's glass), and so nomadic cultures (who couldn't really stop and set up mines) could use it in lieu of metal for weapons. That being said, it was replaced by bronze in practically every culture that set up any real civilization.

In D&D it has value, sure, but that's because volcanos aren't that common. If you're changing the system such that a culture lives primarily in volcanic regions, then there's no way it'd be worth much as a commodity. Other gems have to be mined, obsidian can simply be "harvested".

You can use gems instead of coins as the currencies if you want, but you're always going to run into the same situation: why does the item have value? If it's meant to be abstract wealth (which is what most gems and precious metals are), that's fine, but there has to be something of underlying value. And gems aren't any more connected to Fire, Water, or Air than metals are. You still have to mine them, and yes, this gives a natural advantage to the Earth races. But you're ALWAYS going to have that problem; they're closest to every natural resource. The easy way to balance it is to say that while Earth races have the best miners, the Water races have the farmers, so they get paid a lot of metal and gems for the food. And so on.
 

Just adding in a tidbit, the Inuit tribes once used fishhooks as a currency (maybe a myth like suicidal lemmings). Also when the Europeans started trading with the natives in the New World, there wasn't any common ground when it came to currency so it ended up as beaver pelt:

http://www.canadiana.org/hbc/stories/produits2_e.html

I think that has something to do with the origin of referring to $1 as a 'buck'.

Naturally this becomes tricky if you try to weigh out what each elemental society deems valuable in itself and those of its neighbors and what it can offer in return.
 

Spatzimaus, thanks for the good points. I knew the whole obsidian being common would be a problem. I also knew that currency has value because there is a useful substance to back it up. The problem I have is when you look at how several different cultures interact.

The air/earth dichotomy is most troubling, but I also didn't like the ocean cultures having a solely metal currency either. For fire, I thought the creatures native to the plane would more likely trade in brass or obsidian or some fire-based material over gold. Particularly with the nomadic Air cultures, they have little use for gold mined by the dwarves they hate. They don't adorn themselves with it, they'd rather use some other form of accessory because gold is a mark of their enemy. So I thought with a desert culture, some kind of glass or quartz would be more appropriate. For the water cultures, I thought pearls or some form of shells might work. Granted, anyone could farm oysters, but I figured this would be seen as a form of counterfeiting there and dealt with harshly. Probably the only oyster farms are government run.

I was thinking that in Dark Sun, the currency was ceramic based. Sure, anyone could manufacture ceramic pieces if they forge the mold, but they'd risk the ire of the templars. So, I'm just trying to find a similar medium.

All of the info you've contributed is what I was hoping to hear, but it's just the hard point of balancing historic realism and setting continuity with utility of play use. I know I could just jury rig it and set currency values at what I want, but I wanted to pick something that wasn't off-the-wall, because then the players could do the same things you're describing, harvesting obsidian and flooding the market. I just need to find the right thing to use as a medium because while gold will be valuable, I already have the Earth Realms wielding great economic influence and that would tip the scales to the point where they dominate everything. The other cultures would adapt somehow to not be subjigated by them
 

Nuclear Platypus said:
Just adding in a tidbit, the Inuit tribes once used fishhooks as a currency (maybe a myth like suicidal lemmings). Also when the Europeans started trading with the natives in the New World, there wasn't any common ground when it came to currency so it ended up as beaver pelt:

http://www.canadiana.org/hbc/stories/produits2_e.html

I think that has something to do with the origin of referring to $1 as a 'buck'.

Naturally this becomes tricky if you try to weigh out what each elemental society deems valuable in itself and those of its neighbors and what it can offer in return.

Something like that might work. The Air people are the predominate furriers and livestock raisers. They'd probably have a practical tradestock like that. Thanks!
 

If you invented new creatures, or modified creatures, you could also invent substances that could be used to create money. For example, air whales could vomit up a substance similar to ambergis (let's call it "light ambergis"), a reeking (but very light, so it stays in the atmosphere a long time, and settles slowly, with even the smallest wind currents keeping it aloft) useful in perfume making (like real ambergis) or as a power component for some useful potion. The air folk know where to harvest it, and press it into small "coins" with a fairly consistent value.

The Emperor of the Ocean, meanwhile, has a monopoly on a species of oyster that produces zebra-striped pearls. These pearls (and no others) are backed by the Empire's store of some other commodity (perhaps gold or diamonds pushed up from an undersea volcanic vent?). Counterfeiters sometimes try to dye or paint normal pearls as zebras, and a "scratch test" is a common method of making sure that the currency is real.

Etc.


RC
 

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