alternate d20 damage rules

[cogitoergosoup]

I wanted to link weapon skill with weapon damage, making a somewhat grittier game that doesn't take much longer to work out than the normal system. My group came up with 2 possibilities.

• For damage I've downgraded die type while upgrading dice count, to bell curve out damage. 2d12 becomes 3d8, 2d10 becomes 3d6, 3d6 becomes 4d4, 1d8 becomes 2d4, etc. Below 2d4 I don't think it's worth the math. With some oddball damage dice I increased the dice roll, i.e. 1d10 becomes 2d6, but most of the time some damage is lost.

Upper damage ranges are sometimes lost, but I feel the curve is worth it. It's worth noting that the original designer intent of making some weapons damage more reliably than others is somewhat preserved.

• Furthermore, for every multiple (rounded down) of that die damage type the attacker rolls over defense (AC), he gets 1 more die of damage. "Critical hits" no longer exist in this system.

Example 1: A combatant fires a 4d4 damage shotgun at a target with a total defense of 18. With modifiers his attack roll is a 24. The damage roll becomes 5d4.

This system does make smaller weapons more lethal, but I'm okay with that. A knife in the right hand ought to be worth more than 1d4+str mod. Luck still plays a roll, but the experienced professional is now much less likely to have an attack roll of 23 on a peasant but a damage roll of 4. He'll have a harder time wiping out more experienced/dextrous opponents with higher defense--which makes sense.
This system assumes that armor gives damage reduction, but does not improve defense.

• Alternately: Keep the damage dice change, but make a flat multiple over defense equal to extra damage dealt. Perhaps every +4 attack over defense, rounded down, adds a die of damage.

Example 2: Suppose a combatant fires a .3d8 damage sniper rifle at a target with defense 10. His attack roll totals 19 with modifiers, so the damage roll is 5d8.

This version is easier, but less dynamic than the first.

Whaddaya think?

 

[Gansk]

Version 1 looks more interesting. It allows the daggers to keep up with the larger weapons, otherwise the DR for armor will counter the dagger too much, which is a common complaint with armor as DR.

Version 2 gives no incentive to wield a dagger.

 

[kitsune9]

I wanted to link weapon skill with weapon damage, making a somewhat grittier game that doesn't take much longer to work out than the normal system. My group came up with 2 possibilities.

• For damage I've downgraded die type while upgrading dice count, to bell curve out damage. 2d12 becomes 3d8, 2d10 becomes 3d6, 3d6 becomes 4d4, 1d8 becomes 2d4, etc. Below 2d4 I don't think it's worth the math. With some oddball damage dice I increased the dice roll, i.e. 1d10 becomes 2d6, but most of the time some damage is lost.

Upper damage ranges are sometimes lost, but I feel the curve is worth it. It's worth noting that the original designer intent of making some weapons damage more reliably than others is somewhat preserved.

• Furthermore, for every multiple (rounded down) of that die damage type the attacker rolls over defense (AC), he gets 1 more die of damage. "Critical hits" no longer exist in this system.

Example 1: A combatant fires a 4d4 damage shotgun at a target with a total defense of 18. With modifiers his attack roll is a 24. The damage roll becomes 5d4.

This system does make smaller weapons more lethal, but I'm okay with that. A knife in the right hand ought to be worth more than 1d4+str mod. Luck still plays a roll, but the experienced professional is now much less likely to have an attack roll of 23 on a peasant but a damage roll of 4. He'll have a harder time wiping out more experienced/dextrous opponents with higher defense--which makes sense.
This system assumes that armor gives damage reduction, but does not improve defense.

• Alternately: Keep the damage dice change, but make a flat multiple over defense equal to extra damage dealt. Perhaps every +4 attack over defense, rounded down, adds a die of damage.

Example 2: Suppose a combatant fires a .3d8 damage sniper rifle at a target with defense 10. His attack roll totals 19 with modifiers, so the damage roll is 5d8.

This version is easier, but less dynamic than the first.

Whaddaya think?

Interesting ideas! But I'm thinking that it may be extra bookkeeping on the multiples above target AC. How about for every point above the target AC, you do base damage + an extra 2 or 3 or X damage? So if I got that dagger, I do 1d4 + str mod + 2 points per point above target AC for example. I don't know if this preserves your bell curve thing. I really don't know if my idea involves too much bookkeeping really.

 

[Thaed]

Gratuitous Violence

It's always time for a little Gratuitous Violence. I believe in the opportunity for the PCs to die in a game. Otherwise no risk no reward. Makes the game more fun for them and me.

Conan RPG is a great start. Check out the wepon damage raitings for those weapons. They allow real damage to be dealt.

Compound this with allowing open ended dice. That is a D6 that rolls a 6 gets to be rolled again. This new roll is added to the first. This potentially has no end. So 6+6+3 = 15 for a D6 weapon. Nice.

This leads to the players choosing 2D4 weapons over D8 weapons.

4E crits don't work with this system. Can't max damage an open ended Die. Either eliminate crits, go with 3.5 rules, or make your own crit chart. Nice to allow the PCs to roll a percentage die on crit to see the affect.

Now add in a mass damage rule and you have it. Any time the players take 30 points of damage in one shot have them make a death save. Death save modifiers apply. If they fail they drop to 0 hp and are dying. This gives them at least a 55% chance to survive it. 30 points may not be right for your game. Assign an appropriate number. Lower for more deadly, higher for more rare.

And if you are an old softy like me, give your players a stallion check. Let them add up their ability scores. Find the average. Then add their level. Use this as a percentage. If they end up dying, make a percentage roll with this number as their target number. If they make it, somehow they survive. (role-play it.) If they fail, make a new character, but you gave them a chance and it was in their hands.

Enjoy.

 

[the_bruiser]

When I was running an alternate of the "Grim and Gritty" rules I wanted something very similar to what you're looking for, but simplicity and consistency with existing rulesets were key. So for us damage was the exact same as normal with two changes:
(i) The amount by which your 'to hit' roll exceeded their defense was added to damage, and
(ii) For every die you roll at maximum (such as an 8 on a d8) you get to add another die of that type to your damage. (This applies only to weapon damage, not sneak attack, etc.) As mentioned earlier, this does make d4s more interesting than d8s - they don't really do a lot more exploding damage on average, but they certainly do exploding damage more often (in this case 2d4 do at least d4 exploding damage 7/16 of the time vs. a d8 doing at least d8 exploding damage only 1/8 of the time).

Combined those make combat much, much more swingy and lethal. I loved it. (As an aside, we also ran the armor = DR rather than AC rule. In 'normal damage' game this might be a problem, but in G&G this meshed really well with the above rule.)

 

[Thaed]

Vulgar display of power

Great point. The Conan RPG uses DR armor as well.


The flip side of this line of discussion is not to increase the damage, but to decrease the hit points.

 

[cogitoergosoup]

Wow...I *really* like that Conan RPG damage option. Very nice. I'll probably implement that ASAP.