D&D General Alternate firearms rules (input needed)

[Laurefindel]

I've decided to give firearms a try (conceptually) for one of my homebrewed and intend to be be implementing an idea I had a few years ago, but i would appreciate a critical eye, especially regarding damage and/or complexity of the said rules.

Spirit of the new rule
- Firearms deal automatic damage with a saving throw instead of requiring an attack roll (like many spells).

Design goals:

• Differentiate firearms from crossbows.
• Provide martial characters with automatic and save-for-half damage options.
• Conceptually, these early firearms are deadly but more is left to chance and agility of the target than the skill of its user.
• I aiming for high damage, low rate of fire, already hinted by the loading quality of muskets and pistols (preventing automatic damage from happening too often). A firearm should be like a 1st or 2nd level spells, not a cantrip.

Musket
As an action, you fire the loaded musket at a target within 120 feet. The target makes a Dexterity saving throw (DC 8 plus your Dexterity modifier and proficiency bonus), taking 2d12 on a failed save or half as much on a successful one. If the target is beyond 40 feet of you, the target takes no damage on a successful save.
If the target fails the saving throw, its Speed is also reduced by 10 feet until the start of your next turn. You can reload your musket when you take a Short or Long rest, and you must have both hands free to fire it.
Damage Upgrade. The damage increases by 1d12 when you reach levels 5 (3d12), 11 (4d12), and 17 (5d12).

Pistol
As an action, you fire the loaded pistol at a target within 90 feet. The target makes a Dexterity saving throw (DC 8 plus your Dexterity modifier and proficiency bonus), taking 2d10 on a failed save or half as much on a successful one. If the target is beyond 30 feet of you, the target takes no damage on a successful save.
If the target fails the saving throw, you have Advantage on your next attack roll against the creature before the end of your next round. You can reload your pistol when you take a Short or Long rest, and you must have at least one hand free to fire it.
Damage Upgrade. The damage increases by 1d10 when you reach levels 5 (3d10), 11 (4d10), and 17 (5d10).

Proficiency with Firearms
Anyone can wield a musket or a pistol, but you must have proficiency with firearms to add your Proficiency Bonus to the DC of your saving throw and to load a new ammunition in the weapon.

Firearm Master
General Feat (Prerequisite: Level 4+)
You gain the following benefits
Ability Score Increase. Increase your Dexterity or Wisdom score by 1, to a maximum of 20.
Rapid Fire. You can draw and fire a loaded musket or pistol as an Action, a Bonus Action, or a Reaction.
Rapid Reload. You can use a Bonus Action to reload a musket or pistol if no enemy creature are within 5 feet of you.

Firearm Fighting
Fighting Style Feat (Prerequisite: Fighting Style Feature)
The DC to resist your musket and pistol attacks increases by 2.

I also have ideas for dedicated Pistolier and Musketeer feats, allowing a musket to be used like a quarterstaff or spear in melee, imposing disadvantage on the Dexterity save, fire two pistols in the same round, etc.

Now for questions:
Is damage too high? Should it be 1d12/1d10 plus Dexterity modifier instead? Does automatic damage equate the possibility of higher damage on a crit? Should it use a standardized spell format, considering firearms a magic item/spells (which conveniently comes with a bunch of specific rules). Is the upgraded damage appropriate? Should upgraded damage instead consume attacks and/or sneak attack dice? Comments/opinions?

 

[Clint_L]

I'm curious as to your reasoning for turning firearms into spells, effectively? It raises a lot of balance issues. For example, they now function essentially like cantrips, but offensive cantrips are essentially a low-damage option intended to give spellcasters an option to cotnribue a little when they aren't using a levelled spell (exception being warlocks and Eldritch Blast, but between their evocations and using attack rolls it is essentially a missile weapon).

So, yeah, if the firearm is going to be a main option for this character (like, say, a gunslinger) then the damage should include ability scores and so on. 5d12 base damage (average 33) is terrible for a 17+ martial character. But I'm not at all sure what you gain from shifting to a spell model, other than shifting the D20 roll from the attacker to the target.

Edit: also, that shift would make for some surprising (to me) game situations. AC no longer protects you from firearm attacks, which would mean that a high AC/low dex target (e.g. an iron golem) would be extra vulnerable to them. That feels off.

 

[aco175]

I'm not sure about needing a short rest to reload. Historically, people could shoot a couple to few times per minute if they were trained. Is giving up a round (or two) of actions worth the trade off of firing every other round? You also make the feat a must have if someone is taking the firearm in the first place by allowing a shot each round instead of each rest. But, if you want to keep the 'cantrip' damage improvement then it might be better balanced with 1/rest and not with the upgrade in damage and the feat (which everyone will take).

The question of is it the bullet or the shooter doing the damage? The bullet hits dealing damage and the accuracy of the shooter makes hitting specific spots easier, and likely more damage if you hit those spots. Is the Dex bonus and proficiency bonus for this show the aiming of the shooter or adding scaling damage right in showing this? I would likely go with static damage like a sword instead of cantrip scaling.

Pistols are terrible at shooting distance and should be a 20/60 range but a 30/90 is more fantasy weapon feel.

 

[Marc17]

Makes sense if you are trying for the feeling of say firearms in samurai movies like The Seven Samurai. They are not without their flaws, but feared as even a commoner could take out a highly skilled warrior with one. Since Hit Points are not Meat Points (except when they are), then even a failed save by a higher level character might just be a close miss in description, but putting "the fear" into the target with a close miss. It certainly changes them from a bow, but also into something much deadlier than a normal melee or missile weapon, but if that is the mood you are looking at, I'd say try it in play*.

There are two ways that I see that would affect the mood of the game. Make them expensive weapons to make a fire, a special item that is only used typically by the rich or powerful. Although, those with the money and power could use their money and power to arm commoners with them and use that to dominate the battlefield or even personal conflicts. Could look to Lone WOlf and Cub comic for other treatments.

Still even a short rest to reload is pretty outrageous. Auto damage is very powerful, but I'd balance it out with some thing like five rounds to reload a rifle or musket. Too long for any sort of one to one combat, but works in mass combat with ranked fire (and pikemen to defend). Then with the feat, make reloading one or two full rounds to reload. Something that could be used by an adventurer in certain situations as opposed to just having a bandolier of pistols, dropping them as fired to draw new ones.** I'd also bring down the range of pistols by a good amount, half at least.

*I do think this treatment is not just differentiating them from bows, but making them something that would be an integral part of the setting being played in. When 20 commoners could just automatically deal 40d12, half on save to a character, it tends to alter the setting.

**And that is the logical extension of this treatment of firearms that will be assumed by anybody who can afford them.

 

[sevenbastard]

I think high damage with saving throws is fine. Load time of 4 actions. it becomes almost a 4e per combat ability except charachters can carry more than one pistol.

You can also keep your npcs busy loading muskets for your PC. Gives those children something to do with thier actions in combat besides dodge. Treasure Island taught me something.

A fun option for a martial that is not just roll to hit.

I dont understand the idea of a muzzleloading gun slinger, its a bizarre concept to me. I dont need 100% historic accuracy, but I need at least a thin veneer of believablility.