D&D General Alternate firearms rules (input needed)

[Tormyr]

The more I think about it, the more making (these homebrewed) firearms magic items makes the most sense, even if they end up a custom category or casting a custom « spell ». All the infrastructure is already in the game and well-integrated; might as well use it.

Is it okay for a creature to counterspell a firearm?

 

[Laurefindel]

Is it okay for a creature to counterspell a firearm?

Actually, yes it is! First, firearms using a gunpowder considered a magical alchemical substance is not without precedent, and it provides a countermeasure against a weapon that otherwise deals automatic damage.

I can easily imagine magic triggering or jamming the mechanism of a crossbow, extinguishing Greek fire and neutralizing acid, so blocking the (al)chemical reaction of a firearm is quite within the realm of what magic can do.

short of making a new category of items, I prefer early firearms to be reflavored wands than reflavored crossbows.

 

[Clint_L]

Is it okay for a creature to counterspell a firearm?

I don't think you can counterspell an item, can you?

You attempt to interrupt a creature in the process of casting a spell. The creature makes a Constitution saving throw. On a failed save, the spell dissipates with no effect, and the action, Bonus Action, or Reaction used to cast it is wasted. If that spell was cast with a spell slot, the slot isn’t expended.

Reaction*

* - which you take when you see a creature within 60 feet of yourself casting a spell with Verbal, Somatic, or Material components

 

[Laurefindel]

I don't think you can counterspell an item, can you?

I don’t have the 2024 DMG, but in 5e2014, a wand doesn’t produce a magical effect on its own, it allows the wielded to cast a spell using a charge instead of a spell slot. Since you’re casting the spell from t he wand, counterspell should work.

But as I said, I don’t have the new DMG (or a D&D beyond subscription) to verify.

[edit] It seems not all wands are the same, but counterspell can effectively counter a spell cast from an item such as a wand (like a wand of magic missile), but not a specific effect that isn't a spell produced by the item (like a wand of pyrotechnics)

 

[Clint_L]

I don’t have the 2024 DMG, but in 5e2014, a wand doesn’t produce a magical effect on its own, it allows the wielded to cast a spell using a charge instead of a spell slot. Since you’re casting the spell from t he wand, counterspell should work.

But as I said, I don’t have the new DMG (or a D&D beyond subscription) to verify.

[edit] It seems not all wands are the same, but counterspell can effectively counter a spell cast from an item such as a wand (like a wand of magic missile), but not a specific effect that isn't a spell produced by the item (like a wand of pyrotechnics)

What's the source on a counterspell being able to counter a spell cast from an item? From the wording of counterspell, in order to counter a spell it requires the caster to "see a creature within 60 feet of yourself casting a spell with Verbal, Somatic, or Material components." Casting from an item doesn't require any of those; you don't even have to be a spellcaster.

 

[Laurefindel]

What's the source on a counterspell being able to counter a spell cast from an item? From the wording of counterspell, in order to counter a spell it requires the caster to "see a creature within 60 feet of yourself casting a spell with Verbal, Somatic, or Material components." Casting from an item doesn't require any of those; you don't even have to be a spellcaster.

As i said I'd have to check in the new DMG, but loads of characters can cast spells without being spellcasters now. I don't know whether using a magic item such as a wand items counts as a somatic and/or material component, or rather, whether it becomes a spell focus that replaces the material component.

Which makes me wonder, would the '24 counterspell work against a spell using a spell focus as the only component (Sorcerer with Subtle metamagic?) assuming the LoS and distance requirements are met?

 

[Clint_L]

As i said I'd have to check in the new DMG, but loads of characters can cast spells without being spellcasters now. I don't know whether using a magic item such as a wand items counts as a somatic and/or material component, or rather, whether it becomes a spell focus that replaces the material component.

Which makes me wonder, would the '24 counterspell work against a spell using a spell focus as the only component (Sorcerer with Subtle metamagic?) assuming the LoS and distance requirements are met?

I think it would not work if the spell didn't require material components that are consumed or have a cost, according to the specific wording of the counterspell and the specific wording of subtle spell:

When you cast a spell, you can spend 1 Sorcery Point to cast it without any Verbal, Somatic, or Material components, except Material components that are consumed by the spell or that have a cost specified in the spell.

Indeed, getting past counterspell seems like one of the intended benefits of subtle spell.

 

[piper909]

Study up on the actual history of firearms and learn about how they evolved -- and pick an era to work within, and decide how fast your world might allow for innovations (e.g., can magic be used to "upgrade" the technology?) How available are the resources for firearms, from gunsmithing to metallurgy to gunpowder? How common ARE firearms in general? What effect do they have when introduced to a society that does not have them? And most of all, balance the benefits and drawbacks in your game setting. Primitive firearms have decided drawbacks as well as advantages but eventually improved firearms are going to make other weapons and modes of combat obsolete (does this take centuries?). Modern firearms are probably not going to fit in well with a typical fantasy world of pre-modern life. So judge well.

 

[Laurefindel]

Study up on the actual history of firearms and learn about how they evolved -- and pick an era to work within, and decide how fast your world might allow for innovations (e.g., can magic be used to "upgrade" the technology?) How available are the resources for firearms, from gunsmithing to metallurgy to gunpowder? How common ARE firearms in general? What effect do they have when introduced to a society that does not have them? And most of all, balance the benefits and drawbacks in your game setting. Primitive firearms have decided drawbacks as well as advantages but eventually improved firearms are going to make other weapons and modes of combat obsolete (does this take centuries?). Modern firearms are probably not going to fit in well with a typical fantasy world of pre-modern life. So judge well.

« Judging well » is indeed what I’m trying to do, hence why I made a thread to ask for comments and analysis on the initial proposition. I received a lot of very useful input, enough to know where I’m going I think, but I’m curious to know what you think.