Alternate Form after Shadow Strength Damage

[darthkilmor]

What happens if you've taken Str damage from a Shadow, and Con drain from a Wraith, and then take the alternate form? Str and Con both drop to 0... do you rise as a Shadow or a Wraith?

Both, and then your body turns into an advanced Bodak with a compass that always points to the other PC's.

: D

 

[Zurai]

It doesn't matter. The Strength damage lingers until it is removed, and it stacks with other Strength damage. It is always 'active', always reducing the character's Strength by that amount. If something else lowers their Strength score, the Shadow's Strength damage is still in effect, and once the creature's Strength hits 0, the Shadow's ability triggers. It's undead mojo is still afflicting the character.

So what happens if a character takes 1 point of Strength damage from a Shadow, then 1 point of Strength damage from, say, a disease, then gets a lesser restoration or similar restorative that repairs 1 point of Strength damage, then something else happens to reduce them to 0 Strength? Lesser restoration and its ilk have no language to allow you to choose what "type" of Strength damage you deal, so did that 1 healed point come from the Shadow's Strength drain or the disease's Strength drain? How can you know?

The rules do not support, in any fashion, segregating ability damage. There is no "Strength damage dealt to me by a Shadow" column on any character sheet. Shadows deal Strength damage with their attack. Separately, if their attack reduces you to 0 Strength, you die. The two are unrelated from a rules perspective. There's no other sane way to adjudicate it.

 

[Jhaelen]

My take on it:

Strength Damage (Su)
The touch of a shadow deals 1d6 points of Strength damage to a living foe. A creature reduced to Strength 0 by a shadow dies. This is a negative energy effect.

Create Spawn (Su)
Any humanoid reduced to Strength 0 by a shadow becomes a shadow under the control of its killer within 1d4 rounds.

For me the bolded part is the decisive one. It doesn't matter how much of your normal Str total was reduced by the shadow's attacks. What matters is if the shadow's damage reduces your strength score to 0 or below.

So, if you're already operating at 1 Str because of disease, poison, whatever and a shadow hits you, you're dead and you'll turn into a shadow.

If a shadow's Str damage brought you to 1 Str and afterwards you lose 1 more additional points, nothing besides the normal effects of being at strength 0 happens.

 

[eamon]

It could be argued that the ability only works when the Shadow hits someone and they go down to 0 Strength immediately, but I hardly think that would be the right rules interpretation.

Why not?

 

[eamon]

Very simple: A Shadow attacks you. After the attack, check your net Strength. If 0, then die and become a shadow. If >0, no other effect--regardless of later changes to your net total.

Simple, and the best ruling all around. Notably, it doesn't introduce contradictions. It could be argued that a creature already at 0 strength can't be "reduced to 0 strength" by strength damage, but given the context, it's probably irrelevant: shadows in my game aren't attacking dropped creatures anyhow.