Alternate way to handle poison and disease- comments?

[Gothmog]

Recently I have been thinking about how poison and disease are handled in D&D, and they don't make any sense. Why is a Fort save used instead of a Con check? How does knowing how to fight with a sword or cast potent spells make you more resistant to the effects of poison or the debilitating effects of disease? I think we all know that if you give even the most experienced and combat trained navy seal or similar expert cyanide or botulism, they are going to be one dead turkey.

I was thinking of maybe handling poisons and diseases by having characters make Con checks against the DC-5 listed in the DMG. This would mean most of the poisons and diseases in the DMG would have DCs of 6-15, which still leaves a reasonable chance of success to tough characters. The way it stands now, poisons are pretty much useless at higher levels (9+), because there is very little chance of failing the save. Also, this makes creatures that use poison more dangerous, and adventurers would be more cautious. You could even apply the bonus from the Great Fortitude feat to poison and disease saves. What do you guys think?

 

[Crothian]

I like this idea. The only problem will be with like Gargantuan Spider Poison, or other vermins that have poison DCs of 30+. Even with the -5, very few characters would be able to make the save on anything but a natural 20.

 

[Gothmog]

I see your point Crothian, and that could be problematic. On the other hand, when I looked at the MM, the highest poison DC was 54 for a colossal scorpion, which is CR 11. Even assuming that we use a 15th level dwaven fighter with a 20 Con, he only has a +14 Fort save, +16 vs poison. If we add a cloak of resistance +4, and possibly a Periapt of Proof Against Poison (another +4), his total save is only +24, which means he has to roll a 20 to make his save. His odds really aren't any different in regular D&D vs what I suggested. Besides, characters don't often run into huge, gargantuan, or colossal vermin, which are about the only things with really high poison DCs. However, with those kinds of Fort saves, he is pretty much immune to any other poisons in the system now. If the DM is really worried about the giant vermin DCs being too high, he can always adjust them down too. What do you think?

 

[Crothian]

Those DCs are really high, but the point is what was really hard before (even a DC 36 save) is next to impossible now. However, theses type of creatures aren't that hard to defeat in other ways. Overall I really like it as it makes diseases and poisons to be feared.

 

[Gothmog]

Heck, you could even say to reduce the potency of a poison over 20 DC by 1/2, and take the final value there. So the colossal scorpion would be a 27 now, and the colossal spider would be 18. How does that sound?

 

[Crothian]

To big of a drop I think. These things have dealy poisons, so they should remain dedly. And the same formula should apply everything equally.

 

[hong]

Recently I have been thinking about how poison and disease are handled in D&D, and they don't make any sense. Why is a Fort save used instead of a Con check? How does knowing how to fight with a sword or cast potent spells make you more resistant to the effects of poison or the debilitating effects of disease?

Because as characters become more heroic, they also become more able to shrug off effects that would fell a lesser person. Someone who is 10th level isn't just highly skilled with a sword or with spells; they're more in tune with the Force, or they have the favour of the seven fortunes, or their loremastery is superior, or something. The point is, a high-level character isn't just a more skilled/experienced version of a low-level character. The two are qualitatively different.

I think we all know that if you give even the most experienced and combat trained navy seal or similar expert cyanide or botulism, they are going to be one dead turkey.

But that's no fun.