D&D (2024) What is With Poison?, and Other PHB Conundrums.

[Dausuul]

Remember when you could reasonably trust that your players wouldn't have game-breaking abilities from first-party material?

Yeah, it was called 4E. It didn't go over well, and WotC clearly learned their lesson.

 

[Maialideth]

A) What do you think about the pricing and mechanics of poison in the PHB. B) What other weird things have you discovered in the PHB?

Poison in the PHB feels like a carrot dangling in front of the players. Only when they take it, it turns out to be rotten and not worth the effort getting it. But the monsters' carrots (poison) is awesome (cue sad trombone for player characters).

Poison immunity is probably the most common damage / condition immunity in the Monster Manual, and if a PC takes the Poisoner feat, hoping to overcome some poison resistance, only 6! monster stat blocks in the new Monster Manual have damage resistance to poison. True there are lots of monsters without any resistance or immunity to poison, and if the party faces a lot of humanoids poison is probably okay. Except it is crazy expensive for a single use, even with the (absolutely useless) Poisoner feat.

 

[Larnievc]

Between this thread and the other one @DarkCrisis just started, I’m starting to wonder if the meme about no one reading the DMG also applies to the PHB…

Certainly applies to my players, sadly.

 

[Larnievc]

Everyone has their own particular tastes and playstyles and all, but...

I'd still highly recommend that you start considering it your job. It's impossible to balance challenges and encounters for your players if you don't know what they're capable of.

I dunno. I don’t really know the ins and outs of what my players can do and don’t have any issues balancing encounters.

 

[Reynard]

I dunno. I don’t really know the ins and outs of what my players can do and don’t have any issues balancing encounters.

The books tell you what levels make sense with what challenges. I don't need to know exactly how everything wroks for every PC -- especially since I am not curating encounters for them. the world exists in its own state regardless of what PCs the players bring to the table.

 

[Shardstone]

I will counter with more common foes

A 1e & 2e troll was 33hp (hd6+6), 3e was 68hp (6d8+36) and a 5e troll is 84hp (8d10 + 40).

Kobolds in 5e have 5hp (2d6-2) vs 1e 2.5hp (1/2 d8), or 3e 4hp (d8)

Hit points inflation is the norm, of not a rule.

Is comparing 5hp vs 4hp worth doing?

 

[Shardstone]

This is the point I don't understand. To me this is dirt simple.

In 2024, yes charm person doesn't work on goblins (its a clear intention from changing the type). Doesn't mean I have to screw my players. If a player casts charm person on them I would immediately go "oh hey guys, just a reminder in 2024 goblins are now fey".

Player: "oh really, oh ok, well give me a sec I'll cast a new spell".


Its literally that easy. Now maybe a dm wants to integrate that change into their campaign. Perhaps goblins were humanoids but some force is actually shifting them into fey. In which case it would make total sense for the dm to say nothing and when the player goes "wait my charm person doesn't work....it always had before" the dm simply goes "yeah....weird huh".... and now its a mystery in the campaign to solve. Nothing wrong with that either.

This is massive mountain out of a molehill, your the DM, don't be a douche....help guide your players through the changes. Its couldn't be simplier.

Sometimes it feels like any obstacle, set back, or loss is perceived as a great injustice against players. Why is it so bad that players might waste a spell slot once with hold or charm person? Its a learning lesson and heightens tension. Why do people focus so much on this small """feels bad""" moment?

 

[kigmatzomat]

Is comparing 5hp vs 4hp worth doing?

It is a +25% hp increase, inline with the troll.

That 1hp may seem immaterial but to a low level character it is the difference between a Magic Missile killing kobolds 50% of the time vs 25% of the time. Or a dagger/dart/sling.

 

[Shardstone]

It is a +25% hp increase, inline with the troll.

That 1hp may seem immaterial but to a low level character it is the difference between a Magic Missile killing kobolds 50% of the time vs 25% of the time. Or a dagger/dart/sling.

I suppose, but it doesn't really feel like it matters that much. It's ok if a magic missile doesn't one shot each kobold 100% of the time; however, most melee attacks with a d6 weapon and a +1 modifier are going to clear this relatively easy.

I get that statistically it's significant but that doesn't really matter IMO if the end result is 4hp vs 5hp when a Fighter will almost always drop them in one attack regardless.

I think your perspective shared by WotC though, so I'm in the minority on this one. But sometimes it feels like something being mathematically better by X% just doesn't really matter when you look at the results in game.

 

[Shardstone]

So Rogue Assassins get prof in a Poisoner's Kit. By spending 50gp, you can make poison that sells for 100gp. Make two doses of poison with that 100 and now you got 200gp. Then you make four doses and get 400gp...you get the idea.

So maybe the real reason for this is so the Rogue Assassin can get bloody filthy rich by level 4.