D&D (2024) 2024 PHB/DMG/MM art/layout: like or dislike?

DavyGreenwind

Just some guy
There's also the Antikythera mechanism of ancient Greece.
I thought about including that as an example too! It's a common trope of fantasy settings to have lost technology from an fallen empire, but you don't necessarily have to have a dark age. Maybe your not-Europe didn't forget Greek stuff for 1,000 years. Maybe your Rome never fell!
 

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Kurotowa

Legend
I thought about including that as an example too! It's a common trope of fantasy settings to have lost technology from an fallen empire, but you don't necessarily have to have a dark age. Maybe your not-Europe didn't forget Greek stuff for 1,000 years. Maybe your Rome never fell!
Nearly every D&D setting is some stage of post-post-apocalyptic. There was a high magic civilization somewhere in the past, it blew up for Reasons but left the countryside littered with ruins full of powerful magic items and deadly traps, and rather than dealing with the immediate post-apocalyptic scrabble for survival we're far enough along that things have mostly stabilized and people are delving into those ruins for personal profit.

Different settings have the sliders set to different points, and the emphasis can be adjusted. But there's a need to explain why "ancient magical artifacts" are as good or better than anything new being produced, and why there's abandoned complexes full of treasure and monsters and traps just waiting to be delved, so a post-post-apocalypse situation is nearly always included. Sometimes multiple, either regional or cyclical.
 

Azzy

ᚳᚣᚾᛖᚹᚢᛚᚠ
I thought about including that as an example too! It's a common trope of fantasy settings to have lost technology from an fallen empire, but you don't necessarily have to have a dark age. Maybe your not-Europe didn't forget Greek stuff for 1,000 years. Maybe your Rome never fell!
I like your example better because I didn't know about it priorly.
 


DavyGreenwind

Just some guy
Nearly every D&D setting is some stage of post-post-apocalyptic. There was a high magic civilization somewhere in the past, it blew up for Reasons but left the countryside littered with ruins full of powerful magic items and deadly traps, and rather than dealing with the immediate post-apocalyptic scrabble for survival we're far enough along that things have mostly stabilized and people are delving into those ruins for personal profit.

Different settings have the sliders set to different points, and the emphasis can be adjusted. But there's a need to explain why "ancient magical artifacts" are as good or better than anything new being produced, and why there's abandoned complexes full of treasure and monsters and traps just waiting to be delved, so a post-post-apocalypse situation is nearly always included. Sometimes multiple, either regional or cyclical.
You are right in describing what most settings actually are. But it doesn't have to be. A campaign in ancient Egypt or Sumeria could be about creating those artifacts, traveling to the underworld or Mount Chimera for the raw materials. Or maybe it's in a sort of Ancient Greece, and there may not be much in the way of useful human ruins, but perhaps the dragons have powerful artifacts you need to "borrow." There's no limit to the possibilities, even basing it off real world cultures.
 

Kurotowa

Legend
You are right in describing what most settings actually are. But it doesn't have to be. A campaign in ancient Egypt or Sumeria could be about creating those artifacts, traveling to the underworld or Mount Chimera for the raw materials. Or maybe it's in a sort of Ancient Greece, and there may not be much in the way of useful human ruins, but perhaps the dragons have powerful artifacts you need to "borrow." There's no limit to the possibilities, even basing it off real world cultures.
Oh, sure. But RPGs of games of imagination and nearly limitless potential. Saying what you could do for a D&D campaign does nothing to change what the established assumptions of the printed books and most of the players are. It's like saying anything is possible if you start adding house rules to enable it.

If you want to go that far off the beaten trail, the DM has to put in a lot of prep work and the players need to be brought on board with the altered expectations.
 

DavyGreenwind

Just some guy
Oh, sure. But RPGs of games of imagination and nearly limitless potential. Saying what you could do for a D&D campaign does nothing to change what the established assumptions of the printed books and most of the players are. It's like saying anything is possible if you start adding house rules to enable it.

If you want to go that far off the beaten trail, the DM has to put in a lot of prep work and the players need to be brought on board with the altered expectations.
Good points. I always check in with my players re tone, themes, and setting. I would love for the "established assumptions" to change. I am starving for new types of settings
 

Kurotowa

Legend
Good points. I always check in with my players re tone, themes, and setting. I would love for the "established assumptions" to change. I am starving for new types of settings
It's a bit of a gamble, going against the dominant tropes and established genres of a medium. Most of the time it falls flat on its face because it's not something the audience wanted or understands. Occasionally it becomes a cult classic, as it finds a rather small but underserved audience that's hungry for something to their specific tastes. Once in a very rare while it's an absolute smash hit and establishes a brand new genre and a whole new set of tropes that other people follow for years to come. Your Lord of the Rings or Star Wars or Sailor Moon.

As a society, we depend on artists collectively taking these gambles in order to advance the culture. As a specific artist or business, too many losing gambles means you're flat broke or out of business. Now, the artistic drive is enough that there's always going to be people trying to realize their vision even when it's off the beaten path. But that's usually done by scrappy upstarts without too much to lose. The established players almost always want safer bets, or at least what they think are safer bets.

What I'm saying is, as much as I respect the mechanical craft of Revised 5e, I'm not expecting WotC to be a trailblazer. They're going to sit comfortably on their market dominance, let other people gamble on the risk/reward of the wildly experimental ideas, and either hire or imitate the most successful of them.
 


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