D&D 5E Alternative Dying System

[Huntsman57]

I've been giving thought to the best method to capture the spirit of the more lethal -10 2E and 3.5 dying system while still using the 5E death rolls.

So in 2E and 3.5, when reduced below 1 hitpoint one of two things happens. You're either reduced to 0 through -9 and are unconscious and losing 1 hitpoint per round until stabilized by a teammate (no auto-stabilization) or you go to -10+ at which point you're dead.

Trying to create this with death rolls, I think what needs to happen is that we need to take into consideration that the blow that takes you below 1 hitpoint has a chance to kill you outright. We then need to consider the average time, if you weren't killed outright, that you have to live if not stabilized by a teammate.

So here is what I've come up with....

- a single failed death save = death
- a death save is made at the moment you are taken below 1 hitpoint, and every rounf thereafter
- you will not auto-stabilize
- the likelihood of succeeding your death saving throw improves to 5-20 (based on a general average of dropping unconscious at around -4 to -5)

So this makes it more likely that you succeed any given roll, but creates a realistic possibility of dying instantly and offers a statistically similar chance of surviving after dropping below 1 hitpoint as the older editions.

Thoughts?

 

[DEFCON 1]

I've been giving thought to the best method to capture the spirit of the more lethal -10 2E and 3.5 dying system while still using the 5E death rolls.

So in 2E and 3.5, when reduced below 1 hitpoint one of two things happens. You're either reduced to 0 through -9 and are unconscious and losing 1 hitpoint per round until stabilized by a teammate (no auto-stabilization) or you go to -10+ at which point you're dead.

Trying to create this with death rolls, I think what needs to happen is that we need to take into consideration that the blow that takes you below 1 hitpoint has a chance to kill you outright. We then need to consider the average time, if you weren't killed outright, that you have to live if not stabilized by a teammate.

So here is what I've come up with....

- a single failed death save = death
- a death save is made at the moment you are taken below 1 hitpoint, and every rounf thereafter
- you will not auto-stabilize
- the likelihood of succeeding your death saving throw improves to 5-20 (based on a general average of dropping unconscious at around -4 to -5)

So this makes it more likely that you succeed any given roll, but creates a realistic possibility of dying instantly and offers a statistically similar chance of surviving after dropping below 1 hitpoint as the older editions.

Thoughts?

I'm a little confused by how you explained rule #4. To make sure I understand you correctly... are you saying that rather than a successful death saving throw be a roll of 10+ like it normally is... instead, a successful death save is 5+? And then, (when you then add in rule #1) any death save die roll of 1-4 is actual death and not just a "failed save"?

So when you hit 0 HP you make a death saving throw. A roll of 1-4 means your character has died, a roll of 5-20 means you haven't. You also do not bother counting the number of rolls you make because it doesn't matter how many times you roll 5+, you'll never not stop making this rolls due to "stabilization" until an outside force stabilizes you (via a Medicine check, healing spell or whatever.)

Is this what you mean?

 

[iserith]

Easy House Rule: When you hit 0 hit points, you're dead, straight up.

Just be aware of what that may encourage players to do during play in response, as with any house rule.

 

[Tony Vargas]

I've been giving thought to the best method to capture the spirit of the more lethal -10 2E and 3.5 dying system while still using the 5E death rolls.
Thoughts?

Keep in mind that it was more lethal at higher level, but actually less lethal at very low level. Simply going back to it is an option. A failed death save can mean 'bleed' a point of damage, and you croak at -10 (or -CON score or whatever - just not negative full hps[/quote] which can be quite low at 1st, and rediculously high when you've accumuated 20 HD + 20* CON mod).

One of the playtest rulesets worked that way. I had PCs dropping like flies under it.

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[MG.0]

I think the current system can be pretty lethal as is.

Reduced to zero HP you fall unconscious. This means any further melee attacks will:

a) Have advantage.
b) Autocrit if they hit, causing two death saving throw failures.

Any lack of lethality is likely due to DMs choosing to have attackers ignore downed opponents.

 

[Skyscraper]

You are presumably aware that this means that more or less 1 time out of 5, a PC who is knocked unconscious will die instantly, without possibility of healing. At low level, when hit point maximum is low and spells that bring PCs back from the dead are difficult to come by, this means more frequent permanent PC deaths. If you're fine with that, why not.

This said, if you're trying to recreate the 3.5E feel with the -10, then I don't think this does the trick. Getting knocked from conscious to below -10 in a single attack requires high damage, i.e. a strong attack that is above the average damage output. You won't find that often unless you're higher level; and then, getting your hit points close to 0 but just above to be in that threatening range is not as likely because your hit points, on average, will be further away from 0.

With your rule, if a PC has 1 hit point remaining and takes a punch in the face from Mr. Ordinary-Joe with 10 STR, he suffers 1 point of damage and has 20% chance of dying. While this might appear realistic to you, I find that to be very unsatisfying as far as the type of game I'm looking to play when I play D&D (heroic fantasy).

 

[Huntsman57]

Keep in mind that it was more lethal at higher level, but actually less lethal at very low level. Simply going back to it is an option. A failed death save can mean 'bleed' a point of damage, and you croak at -10 (or -CON score or whatever - just not negative full hps

which can be quite low at 1st, and rediculously high when you've accumuated 20 HD + 20* CON mod).

One of the playtest rulesets worked that way. I had PCs dropping like flies under it.[/QUOTE]

I'm not sure I entirely understand what you're suggesting but if it's that you can drop anywhere from 0 to -9 and make saves from that point, then I guess it makes sense since even if you drop at -9+ you still have to fail a single CON save to actually die. That would help to level out the disparity between higher and lower level characters.

The thing I like about retaining the death roll, particularly since I've been prone, in 5E, to speed the game up by using the average damage for hits, is that it forces the player to gamble. Maybe you can wait a round to get to your buddy and he won't roll a 1-4. The system you suggest (as I understand it) does retain this is the player happens to drop to -9 or worse, but they will otherwise *know* that they have x amount of breathing room.

 

[Huntsman57]

With your rule, if a PC has 1 hit point remaining and takes a punch in the face from Mr. Ordinary-Joe with 10 STR, he suffers 1 point of damage and has 20% chance of dying. While this might appear realistic to you, I find that to be very unsatisfying as far as the type of game I'm looking to play when I play D&D (heroic fantasy).

In my game a punch that isn't thrown by a monk would automatically be subdual damage...but when you think about it, that's not a situation that's going to come up too often anyway.

I do prefer realistic fantasy to heroic fantasy. However, though some others have suggested 0 hitpoints and you die, that's not realistic either. Sure you may have just been impaled through the heart and died immediately (rolled that 1-4) but the rest of the time you're down and out, but can be saved with some swift action from your team.

 

[Tony Vargas]

The thing I like about retaining the death roll, particularly since I've been prone, in 5E, to speed the game up by using the average damage for hits, is that it forces the player to gamble. Maybe you can wait a round to get to your buddy and he won't roll a 1-4. The system you suggest (as I understand it) does retain this is the player happens to drop to -9 or worse, but they will otherwise *know* that they have x amount of breathing room.

I was thinking that if you were dropped past -10 you just died, but, sure, that'd work, too.

Theoretically, IC, you wouldn't necessarily know if you have such breathing room, or even if they ally you're thinking of helping is actually alive or dead, until you check on him. Heh. You could use the regular 'three strikes' death save, or something like it, but 'Schrodinger' it - no death saves are made until the character receives healing or an attempt to stabilize, then roll all of them and see whether he's died in the mean time....