Alternatives to PCGen

[Twin Rose]

It's quite true that small bugs find their way into programs through their lifecycles, and the third edition rules are changing so much through various publications that keeping on top of them can help re-introduce bugs that we didn't want to be there. (Well, who does want them in there?)

Much like us at Twin Rose, the Codemonkey folks are quite thorough about fixing them when called to attention and getting updates posted with some regularity.

Really, what the decision you make should be based on is what you want the product to do. If you want support for 3rd party applications, and easy-to-use editors to enter in your own PRCs (or those from splatbooks, when they cannot be found on the net) I recommend CS. We include editors that we TRY to make as thorough as possible. (Remember, the d20 system changes a lot with different books, and who can foresee what a publisher will come up with next?)

For just character creation, we have a player's only edition that costs under 10 dollars. PCGen, on cross platform machines, and if you like Java, I understand to be really thorough and complete in the chargen area. I can't say I use it much, I don't like using others softwares for fear of 'tainting' my own creative process.

I'm not even sure if Roleplaying Master DOES chargen - it may be that it's just a management tool. Luke would better answer that.

 

[BarakO]

Here's what my players noticed wrong last night -- I'm sure there's other stuff as well.

1) Damage wrong for the archer: +1 magic +1 Mighty longbow, Weapon Specializaiton, Point Blank shot, normal arrows, PCGen lists damage as 1d8+7 at 30 ft and 1d8+4 at other ranges. By my
math it should be 1d8+5 and 1d8+3.

I would love to see these fixed, but PCGen has had nagging issues like this for a while. It's hard to use the program if I can't trust the basic numbers on the character sheets.

Hmmm. What is the archers strength? Skipping that for the moment...

Weapon Spec. = +2 damage under 30 ft
PBS = +1 damage under 30 ft

Your calcs are wrong... There's a 3 point spread between PB and the first normal range, not 2, using the situation you describe, regardless of any other modifiers.

And I bet the rest of it is that your fighter has a high strength (I'd bet on a +4 STR mod) so is getting more than +1 to damage from his Mighty bow.

 

[Luke]

I'm not even sure if Roleplaying Master DOES chargen - it may be that it's just a management tool. Luke would better answer that.

RolePlayingMaster is into chargen in a very big way.

There are about 5 methods to create PCs/NPCs and monsters, but the "Character wizard" method takes you thoroughly through all the steps to create characters.
Its a very flexible chargen, going to the extent of clearly breaking up abilities into components for dice rolls, age, template effects and racial, level bonuses adjustments. If you play a race with low standard ability scores, RPM will do the correct dice to ability scaling, recognizing the difference between Int and other abilities.

The latest changes (in beta) throw up appropriate SubType selection lists when you take feats such as Weapon Specialization. I'm getting DM reports now that even new players that don't really yet understand 3rd edition mechanics can generate their characters.

As per Galfridus' query about splatbook and psionics - RPM has a sophisticated "Sources" management system which allow you to extend or create Source packages containing classes, races, feats, items, spells etc . Editors are provided for entering game mechanics detail (modifiers, and even scripts, if required), and you can export and share your Sources. For example, Psionics comes in the base package (you can "turn it on"), and D20 Modern is a separate free download.
The latest doco explains how the Sources and game mechanics detail (modifiers and scripts) all works.

What RPM means by "Character management", is that you can look after your character in RPM throughout its life. You can keep track of XP, and class levelling, and manage in-game capabilities.
For in-game, RPM goes beyond the standard approach for character statblocks and sheets, by allowing you to select your options, and then recalculating your stats. Your "Options" include things such as equipping items that have game mechanics effects, and choices for points in feats like Power Attack or Expertise, or simple choices for feats like "Rapid Shot" (take a penalty to get an extra shot). You can also control options for things such as Barbarian rage, or the Monks option to use her Monk's BAB and Flurry Of Blows (useful for multi-classes Monks).
The latest version makes it easier for you to directly perform attacks and skill checks etc from the Character window.

Regards,

 

[Galfridus]

Hmmm. What is the archers strength? Skipping that for the moment...

Weapon Spec. = +2 damage under 30 ft
PBS = +1 damage under 30 ft

Your calcs are wrong... There's a 3 point spread between PB and the first normal range, not 2, using the situation you describe, regardless of any other modifiers.

And I bet the rest of it is that your fighter has a high strength (I'd bet on a +4 STR mod) so is getting more than +1 to damage from his Mighty bow.

Oops, right you are about the difference, but I'm pretty sure PCGen is still getting the math wrong. Here are the relevant stats:

+1 Strength bonus
+1 Bow (+1 Mighty as well)
+2 from Weapon Specialization
+1 Point Blank Shot
+0 from Normal Arrows

That should be +5, +2 at long range; PCGen is saying +7, +4 at long range. We spent a good 15 minutes on and off during a combat trying to figure out where the extra +2 came from, but no one could figure it out (and it made quite a difference, as they were fighting something with 10/+1 damage reduction).

 

[BarakO]

Oops, right you are about the difference, but I'm pretty sure PCGen is still getting the math wrong. Here are the relevant stats:

+1 Strength bonus
+1 Bow (+1 Mighty as well)
+2 from Weapon Specialization
+1 Point Blank Shot
+0 from Normal Arrows

That should be +5, +2 at long range; PCGen is saying +7, +4 at long range. We spent a good 15 minutes on and off during a combat trying to figure out where the extra +2 came from, but no one could figure it out (and it made quite a difference, as they were fighting something with 10/+1 damage reduction).

Hmmm... that's strange.

I'll keep investigating. I'm in charge of the sheets for PCGen right now so it really irks me when they put out bad info.

 

[Duncan Haldane]

Hey, BarakO - I've wondered for a while if it might be possible to have a PCGen output sheet that showed each modifier added to totals for debugging purposes.

Would that be possible? Easy?

thanks,

Duncan

 

[BarakO]

Hey, BarakO - I've wondered for a while if it might be possible to have a PCGen output sheet that showed each modifier added to totals for debugging purposes.

Would that be possible? Easy?

At this time, only in a rough way.

Frex: We can get (read: have output tokens for) the total adjustment from feats for the AC, but not the adjustment from each individual feat affecting that modifier.

We haven't really pursued it too much because the code guys simply track the variables within the program when chasing bugs. No need to go to the extra step of outputting a sheet to check a number.

Galfridus: Bryan found the cause of the problem with the extra +2 damage you had and it was corrected in time for last night's release.

 

[merton_monk]

As far as having an output sheet list all the bonuses goes... on some things you can. If you're at all familiar with our data files you know that they rely heavily on BONUS: tags. e.g. BONUS:COMBAT|AC|1 would add one to your AC. BONUS:COMBAT|AC|1|TYPE=Enchantment would add one to your AC and give it a type "Enhancement" and would enforce the stacking rules on it.

In an output sheet you can have |BONUS.COMBAT.AC.LISTING| and it will list all the bonuses on the character that came from BONUS:COMBAT|AC tags. It will show the totals after having enforced the stacking rules.

Bryan McRoberts
Code Monkey Publishing, Co-Founder
Benevolent Dictator of PCGen

 

[Henry]

Incidentally:

I caught the release of version 4.2.7 yesterday.

Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you.


The feat and race LST editors are wonderful!!!!

 

[Duncan Haldane]

We haven't really pursued it too much because the code guys simply track the variables within the program when chasing bugs. No need to go to the extra step of outputting a sheet to check a number.

Sure, I appreciate that, but as a user I often look at a total and wonder if it's correct. Backtracking it, I find it is most of the time. If such an output sheet were available I would simply do a print preview of that sheet, and voila, I can check where the total comes from.

Anyway, it was just a thought. I'm running RttToEE at the moment, and so I've been putting the NPCs into PCGen (some were already done, but it was in version 2.something, so they are quite out of date). Anyway, I can compare the PCgen totals with what's listed in the module, and try to figure out which is right if there is a difference.

Anyway, thanks,

Duncan