Kmart Kommando
First Post
Of course he was a lame evil, he was a half-elf. no power gaming opportunity there. worst of both worlds.
Alternatives to "Save the World"
- Thread starter Sir Robilar
- Start date
The loose current campaign arc I have planned out involves (a) save the country (b) save the world (c) save all worlds. Sorry.
My previous campaigns were lower in scope - "Clear out the Lost City of Barakus dungeon" was pretty mundane. Before that, the previous campaign's climax was saving the country/empire from foreign invasion. I also did one PC's campaign of conquests against some different countries, which was a lot of fun. Commanding tens of thousands of soldiers in a titanic battle can feel more epic than killing some uber-BBEG down a dungeon. Mentzer D&D Companion Set's War Machine rules are ideal for this.
My previous campaigns were lower in scope - "Clear out the Lost City of Barakus dungeon" was pretty mundane. Before that, the previous campaign's climax was saving the country/empire from foreign invasion. I also did one PC's campaign of conquests against some different countries, which was a lot of fun. Commanding tens of thousands of soldiers in a titanic battle can feel more epic than killing some uber-BBEG down a dungeon. Mentzer D&D Companion Set's War Machine rules are ideal for this.
I agree strongly with this - the reason mega-campaigns like Night Below don't work. IMC I'm running lots of diverse adventures in different parts of the kingdom threatened by evil forces, so the PCs get to know the place. Venturing abroad to save it from external threat comes much later.
Alnag
First Post
The Alternatives to "Save the World" are all around you guys. Just watch some TV series.
LOST - your are in an unknown and uncharted dangerous territory, save your live and find out what's going on... basically surivival.
Star Trek - seek out new life..., ok you know what I mean... basically exploration.
Alias - solving some greater puzzle + espionage theme.
I would say this. Watch a movie or a series and think how you can adapt this to a D&D campaign. There is noting wrong with saving the world once, but there should be alternatives.
The problem is, I think, also in the adventure design itself. Because if you don't know any other formula (WotC designers I am looking at you) other than - got a quest - go to dungeon - kill everything that moves you basically are stuck in save the world, fight the bad guys territory.
Exploration, problem-solving, surviving among other themes all require different approach to adventures which so far I haven't seen much in Dungeon or published adventure. Although they have great tool to make them possible - skill challenges.
Fights are fine. But to make them crucial they need to be more scarce and mixed with a bag of other narrative techniques.
LOST - your are in an unknown and uncharted dangerous territory, save your live and find out what's going on... basically surivival.
Star Trek - seek out new life..., ok you know what I mean... basically exploration.
Alias - solving some greater puzzle + espionage theme.
I would say this. Watch a movie or a series and think how you can adapt this to a D&D campaign. There is noting wrong with saving the world once, but there should be alternatives.
The problem is, I think, also in the adventure design itself. Because if you don't know any other formula (WotC designers I am looking at you) other than - got a quest - go to dungeon - kill everything that moves you basically are stuck in save the world, fight the bad guys territory.
Exploration, problem-solving, surviving among other themes all require different approach to adventures which so far I haven't seen much in Dungeon or published adventure. Although they have great tool to make them possible - skill challenges.
Fights are fine. But to make them crucial they need to be more scarce and mixed with a bag of other narrative techniques.
green slime
First Post
1. No, it's "saved". Its still there, needing saving again, from another threat. "Saving" is sort of subjective, rather than an objective measure. Someone's "saving" may mean another's destruction.
2. Elminister/Mordenkainen Equivalent are personally involved. They just suck at what they are doing to save the planet (PR's a b*tch when it's been too good...), or aren't attempting the same "save" the PCs are. In fact, Mordenkainen is probably the schemer behind the original plan, and Elminster his dodering geriatric tool with Alzheimer's.
The co-operation game is tricky. At high level's everyone is manipulating everyone else, jockeying for position, removing rivals, spreading misinformation, stealing credit.
"Saving" is indeed very subjective. I dunno about you, but my campaign doesn't run like an episode of the Powerpuff Girls.
Player's set individual goals. Player's recieve tasks from associated organisations/powerful individuals. These organisations provide suitable rewards for those that complete tasks for them, and/or are faithful to the cause. Players recieve more XP for achieving individual goals than killing X - looting Y.
"Saving the City" could mean rigging an election, or killing the mayor, or standing for election.
"Removing the Wererat threat" could mean killing all rats in the city, establishing a Secret Peace between the Lycanthropes and City Guard (with defined limits for "activities") or killing all the humans.
It is difficult to get players to think in terms of individual goals. Once they have them, then they start to "care". Caring, together with individual goals, gets players thinking "What do I need to do, to get the result I want".
Jürgen Hubert
First Post
Build a new world from the ashes of the old.
The odds are that many of the old rulers have been killed or weakened by the crisis. So, who are the people going to look to for leadership? That's right, the PCs. After all, they are heroes to the entire world, and if they were able to defeat the Big Bad, they should be able to deal with the difficulties of ruling a nation too - right?
Of course, that's not necessarily true - but let them find that out on their own. Out of necessity, such a campaign will focus far more on the political than on combats, but it's fully possible to run a very fulfilling campaign arc with it. Exalted is a good model for this style of play...
Wulf Ratbane
Adventurer
Brown Jenkin
First Post
As a player I don't mind the save the world thing, but it needs to be at higher levels. I am currently in a Ptolus campaign that started bad for be because it was save the world too early. Our DM ran Night of Dissolution to start off with which is a 6th level save the world. I was very unhappy because at this point because it felt very forced for the reasons above like why isn't someone else willing to deal with this who is more competant. And why is everyone ignoring the threat even when reported with proof.
Next came a modified and severly shortened attempt at the Banewarrens. Our DM tried it but no characters were really interested and we all basicly intentionally avoided all the plot hooks because we all thought we would be TPKed if we went anywhere near it. The place is a respository of concetrated evil that all the powerful NPCs avoid so why should we be stupid enough to go play in there.
Currently though the campaign has found a hook that has us all involved and interested. We are no longer trying to save the world, but rather have found a more mundane pleasure and that is rivaly and revenge. The good thing that came out of the Banewarrens was that we pissed off one of the noble houses in the city. We are now playing a game tweeking and raiding each other and each time either party does something the fued gets stronger. There is no saving anything right now, it is puely personal motivations and it is something we all like. Granted a campaign can't start this way, but once there is a grudge established it is quite fun.
Next came a modified and severly shortened attempt at the Banewarrens. Our DM tried it but no characters were really interested and we all basicly intentionally avoided all the plot hooks because we all thought we would be TPKed if we went anywhere near it. The place is a respository of concetrated evil that all the powerful NPCs avoid so why should we be stupid enough to go play in there.
Currently though the campaign has found a hook that has us all involved and interested. We are no longer trying to save the world, but rather have found a more mundane pleasure and that is rivaly and revenge. The good thing that came out of the Banewarrens was that we pissed off one of the noble houses in the city. We are now playing a game tweeking and raiding each other and each time either party does something the fued gets stronger. There is no saving anything right now, it is puely personal motivations and it is something we all like. Granted a campaign can't start this way, but once there is a grudge established it is quite fun.
El Mahdi
Muad'Dib of the Anauroch
Well, I don't know about Lost (haven't seen it but plan on watching it on Sci-Fi now that they are showing the series) but:
Star Trek was always about saving the galaxy, not just the world. A lot of episodes simply involved saving themselves, and of course "seeking new worlds and new civilizations", but the overall themes, whether Kirk and crew, Picard and crew, Sisko and crew, Janeway and crew, or Archer and crew (whew!), was almost always save the world (Earth), another world (alien), or the galaxy from the next big bad threat.
Alias definately had the puzzle and espionage theme going, but the overall plot was always the Rambaldi prophecy about Sidney and her role in a coming Apocalypse. Once again, that's saving the world.
But, I'm sure there are other themes out there that aren't about saving the world (it's just hard to find, it seems the majority of ones easily pillaged for roleplaying, usually fall back on "save the world" also).
They’ve definitely hinted that there could be world altering things involved. Heck, some of the characters have thought they were saving the world. And while the world survived their failure, something of unknown magnitude did happen.
I forget the latter series, but in TOS they did have the occasional “and the Enterprise is the only thing between it and” Earth/the core of the Federation/etc. The Doomsday Machine being the first to come to mind.
But a lot of the TOS episodes were about saving a world.
But, I think Alnag’s point holds. You don’t have to look far for lots of stories that aren’t “save the world”.
Similar Threads
