Always with the killing

I see a lot of rationales for why there should be many well-known RPGs that are "always with the killing" that miss the boat for explaining why there are not many RPGs that are otherwise.

If you take for granted that all entertainments are so thoroughly dominated by such an emphasis on slaughter, then I think you have a view so skewed that I would not even take your word about the field of RPGs!

It strikes me as a vicious circle to do with a focus on a market of guys -- yes, overwhelmingly males -- who happen to be really into a certain subset of things.

I see less innate correspondence there with the medium of role-playing games than with the medium of video games. I see in practice more effort to please (and profit from) a wider market in computer games.
 

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Can we have some reasonable movie analogies:

Rambo
Jean Claude v D
Chuck N
Seagal
Dolph
Tango and Cash
Lethal Weapon
Terminator 3
Aliens 3

v's

Where Eagles Dare
633 Squadron
Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid
Pulp Ficton
The Godfather
Terminator
AvP
Resident Evil
Apocalypse Now
Beau Geste
Nikita
Analogies of what? First you'd need to explain how you're grouping those. To me it looks like Alien 3, Resident Evil, AvP and Rambo are on the wrong side.
 

Umm... I don't really know what to say to that...

I'll get me coat.

Please stay as a) I was at an unfair advantage after spending the evening designing a tutorial on the biology of violence b) my nuts don't seem to be where they used to be :eek::eek:
 

Analogies of what? First you'd need to explain how you're grouping those. To me it looks like Alien 3, Resident Evil, AvP and Rambo are on the wrong side.

Probably mixed up my Aliens but I was aiming for action v's action and 'immersion'. I'd happily jump into any of the lower list including Resident Evil and AvP, because they've plenty of action, a little depth and a measure of body count 'rationale'.

As for Rambo, I regard all Sly movies as pointless actioners. This is an unreasonable and personal prejudice. The only one I liked was the prison one with the car song where Donald Sutherland torments him at great length.
 

Oh. Wait, then when you say Rambo did you mean the new one? And not First Blood? Then I might actually agree with those. Except Alien 3.

After First Blood the best Rambo movie is Hot Shots! Part Deux. :)
 


Heroism is not about defeating enemies, it is about helping people.

In a D&D game, the most common way to help people is to kill the things that are stabbing them in the night and stealing their precious cattle/princesses/magic items, and then maybe become their king (or at least promote a king that isn't a total Adversary Waiting To Happen).

Myself, I'd like to change this, or at least find a some rules I can crib to make the D&D games I play more about heroism in general, and less about killin' stuff in specific.
 

Please stay as a) I was at an unfair advantage after spending the evening designing a tutorial on the biology of violence b) my nuts don't seem to be where they used to be :eek::eek:

Given your assertion about male testes, no mammal on the planet is biologically predisposed to violence, but pretty much all reptiles would be. That has more to do with warm-blooded vs. cold-blooded than "predisposition." :)
 

Clarabell,

First, you might be interested in this thread which discusses many of the issues of non-combat activities and how to meet their requirements.

I'm more of a noncombat style myself, and have also dealt with the ultraviolent player before. In this case, killing the innkeeper over and insult, and stabbing the homeless, I've got a number of pointers that might help.

Never forget about consequences.
We tend to choose the nonviolent action in real life all the time. Why? Consequences. First, there's the physical damage, without curative magic. Second, there's the law and its overwhelming power. Third, there's the social stigma. If attacking the homeless in game will get you hunted by the guard, no friends, and guaranteed defeated, you won't attack the homeless.

Be aware of status games.
One of the reasons that violence occurs even when you try to avoid it is becuase the perpretrtators feel weak and low status. By finding someone weaker and beating them up, they feel better about themselves. This is usually what happens behind an attack-the-beggars scenario (note that it's not a mug-the-shopkeeper scenario, where the rewards are potentially better). Similarly, the insult threatens to lower the PCs' status, and so they respond by asserting superiority. Violence is expedient. Since part of a fantasy game is to enjoy status you don't have in real life, some of this is to be expected (but not necessarily appreciated). So, to calm a bloodthirsty streak, give them chances to feel a little more important anyway. Find a few things they can be successful in, and let them be successful. Let them have a little power. Heck, even a cowering flunky can do much to calm someone down (it's why the cowering's done in the first place).

Be careful of your own power.
You may not want things to get violent, but make sure that in the process you do not forbid violence. If the players think you're making a particular activity impossible, then they'll try to do more of that very activity. It's like the cursed PC from earlier--you made all his evil turn into good, so he felt the need to try to commit greater and greater evil, far more than he would have tried without the curse. If the players start to feel that you're trying to make sure they don't have combat, they'll rush head first into combat and do everything they can to make sure it happens.

Understand what the players want.
Seriously, they might just want to fight stuff. Don't say no to that. Just make sure that they direct the violence in productive ways through storycraft. If you can't stand their play style, find new players. It's as simple as that.

Make sure noncombat solutions are worthwile.
If they're used to fighting to be successful, you will have to spell this out for them, in the beginning. Basically, though, you'll want to make sure that there is a task that needs completion, an obstacle that needs overcoming, and a reward for completing the task. If you only have two of the three, it beocmes far less interesting. Example: Your village is dying from the plague. You have found out that there is a cure for the plague, but that it is held by a dragon. If you can get the cure by just asking the dragon politely, it's no fun. If you have to fight the dragon, it's fun. But if you can also make a wager of riddles with the dragon, and he'll give you the cure if you win, then it's still fun. If you have to find a way to trick the dragon, it's fun. If you need to perform a grueling service for the dragon for the cure, it's fun. If you have to sneak into the treasure room while the dragon sleeps, it's fun. Being able to say you saved the town because the dragon's really a nice friendly guy who let you have it for free garners no status. But defeating the dragon in some way and saving the village garners a lot of status, and feels good! Whether or not there's violence, it's still empowering.

Just step back, ask why the violence is occurring, and make sure there are interesting challenges without combat and you'll do fine.
 

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