Am I breaking any rules with this tactic?

[kanithardm]

or so that monsters don't just sit in the room with readied actions to attack the first PC they see.

Well I'm not entirely sure monsters cant(*cough cough*) do that

 

[Infiniti2000]

However, thinking about it, I do see what you are talking about. If I can ready an action to move through the door when it's open, why not ready an action to toss in a spell, then use the surprise round to toss a second spell. Ok, I'll buy that. That makes sense. I actually hadn't thought of that.

That's the key to understanding how broken (meaning unplayable) it can be. Think of when (for example) a sole 5th level wizard (evoker, Int 16, so 3 3rd-level spells) catches your party asleep (out in the open or in your rooms, whatever). He readies to toss fireball (arguably no save while asleep), and then on the 'second' surprise round drops another fireball. Then, with improved initiative and buffed with cat's grace, he wins initiative and drops a third fireball. All before the party can act. This will likely kill even a large party. Sure, two fireballs can kill a lot of people (if you take out the 'second' surprise round), but it's sure a lot better than three.

Fortunately, most heroic parties don't leave themselves undefended like that, so my example is suspect, but it's only intended to illustrate the point.

Your alternative is acceptable. Getting into position seems to be want you are attempting (you don't seem to be attempting the exploit I point out), so if you can do it outside of combat without your opponents knowing about it, then you can indeed get a surprise round of attacks before initiative, while you're in position.

 

[Nim]

Also I was being a bit over generalistic in my post. I was taking the assumption that it was just someone at home relaxed. There are other situations as well, like guards playing cards, a security guard at a bank, etc. Non of them are at the ready unless their boss is around, they have reason to believe something is up or they're actively searching/doing something.

Yep, I tend to agree.

Now, creatures with natural weapons have a clear advantage in this. As do (it seems to me, at least), animal-intelligence creatures. The first, because they don't NEED to fumble for weapons. The second because being stunned when caught by surprise is sort of a side-effect of intelligence...it takes a second to understand what's changed and let go of what you THOUGHT was going on. Creatures that rely entirely on instinct will react more quickly.

 

[irdeggman]

Before opening the door caste Haste on the party.

30 ft bonus to movement, 1 extra attack (when making a full attack), +1 attack, +1 AC, +1 reflex saves). Will last at least 5 rds (1rd/level minimum CL of 5).

So with the "surprise" round there should be absolutely no problem getting into position (+30 ft on move - mediums creatures end up with a 60 ft move and dwarves end up with 50 ft).

All you have to do is wait until next round and then take your attacks (with an extra attack each round) - or better yet have the wizard cast a spell as his surprise action - depending on the initiative order he couldget a nice fireball into the room before the group enters.

 

[Storm Raven]

Like was said, there's no mechanical way to guarantee the second standard action. By the rules, I have to gamble that the bad guys react slower than my initiative and I can get my full action in before their initiative count. Odysseus has the right of it.

Combat is a gamble. There are no guarantees. Creating house rules to guarantee something that should be, almost by definition, uncertain, seems to be counterproductive.

 

[Odysseus]

Combat is a gamble. There are no guarantees. Creating house rules to guarantee something that should be, almost by definition, uncertain, seems to be counterproductive.

I'd agree with this. Although I don't think Hussars Idea of 2 standard actions is very overpowered.

Just curious , why do you feel the need to move into the room? Why not fight from the doorway? As long as you can see the enemy, you can shoot them. Plus they can only come at you one at a time through the doorway.

 

[andargor]

Just curious , why do you feel the need to move into the room? Why not fight from the doorway? As long as you can see the enemy, you can shoot them. Plus they can only come at you one at a time through the doorway.

That's assuming you are facing melee types. The enemy composition may make the doorway advantage moot, or an actual disadvantage, such as spellcasters lobbing AoE spells at you. Or archers hanging back, using the same tactics.

If you are facing melee types, use the doorway. Spellcasters, charge in as fast as you can. Archers, it would depend on your missile capability and the other enemies.

Andargor

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

Here is how I see this working in the rules.. and how I use it in my game

Group gathers at door and overhears enemy.
{Start Initiative}
Players can stack, using delays, and enter when they are prepared to do so.
Enemy are treated as if they join in combat when they become aware of the group.
Initiative continues as normal.


This means that the Ambushers can get a planned set of actions off prior to the enemy reacting...but there is no 'surprise round'. Most of the enemy will have to burn some of thier first actions preparing for battle.

Of course, this works in reverse as well... very well

Technically it is per RAW, as the 'start of combat' is left up to the GM.

 

[Infiniti2000]

Group gathers at door and overhears enemy.
{Start Initiative}
Players can stack, using delays, and enter when they are prepared to do so.
Enemy are treated as if they join in combat when they become aware of the group.
Initiative continues as normal.


This means that the Ambushers can get a planned set of actions off prior to the enemy reacting...but there is no 'surprise round'. Most of the enemy will have to burn some of thier first actions preparing for battle.

Keep in mind that this guarantees the party to act at a higher initiative than the enemy. So, they'll not only get the surprise round, they'll get a full round action before the opponents does anything at all.

And I disagree that it's per RAW because I don't agree that 'battle' starts whenever a character or group of characters decide it does. It starts when the two sides encounter each other. The obvious significance to this distinction is not a limitation on buff time at all (that can occur outside of combat), but it does impact the special initiative actions that your plan would abuse.

 

[Peter Gibbons]

Here is how I see this working in the rules.. and how I use it in my game

Group gathers at door and overhears enemy.
{Start Initiative}
Players can stack, using delays, and enter when they are prepared to do so.
Enemy are treated as if they join in combat when they become aware of the group.
Initiative continues as normal.


This means that the Ambushers can get a planned set of actions off prior to the enemy reacting...but there is no 'surprise round'. Most of the enemy will have to burn some of thier first actions preparing for battle.

Of course, this works in reverse as well... very well

Technically it is per RAW, as the 'start of combat' is left up to the GM.

Wrong. You do not roll initiative until both sides have become aware of each other.

"One Side Aware First: In this case, you determine how much time the aware side has before the unaware side can react. Sometimes, the unaware side has no time to do anything before the aware side gets a chance to interact. If so, the character or party that is aware gets to take a standard action before initiative is rolled, while the unaware character or party does nothing and is caught flat-footed. During this time, the unaware character or party gains no Dexterity bonus to AC. After this action, both sides make initiative checks to determine the order in which the participants act." DMG, p.22 (emphasis added).

Remember, the only reason you need to roll initiative is to determine who gets to act first. If all of the characters who would be rolling are on the same side, you don't need to roll, because they can just "delay" themselves into whatever order they want to act in.