Am I breaking any rules with this tactic?

[Lobo Lurker]

Ah, thanks. Missed that. Grr. Is there no way to prepare for an action so that you can get into position and then make an attack? The way the rules work, there is absolutely no way to make use of a surprise round. Even if the person opens the door and those behind him make partial charges, only those pretty much directly in front of the open door are valid targets. And, any spell caster get's pretty much euchred in this deal because if the fighter types charge, he can't do area of effect spells and, if he stays in the doorway, no one else can charge.

Yes. You can prepare for combat outside of combat. It's called an ambush. You set things up, the enemy comes to you and you attack.

I'm no expert on tactics, but this is a game and you kind of circumvent the game by trying to control combat from the get-go. You can always take the improved initiative feat, or use reach weapons, etc.

 

[Tobold Hornblower]

I obviously drew inspiration from a SWAT style of entrance.

Remember, the first thing the SWAT team does is knock on the door and announce themselves.

My group used to get the readied actions up front by doing just that. After everyone else took cover with ranged weapons, the well armored Halfling Bard diplomat would knock on the door and wait for the bad guys to answer. Then she'd start negotiating with them. Everyone else readied actions to fire if negotiations failed and fighting started. And if she felt further talk was pointless, she'd cast Flare and take a 5' step to the side. The bad guys in the doorway got hammered.

The bad guys almost always would spend the surprise round talking, were usually too stupid to ready actions themselves, and often could be bluffed or bribed out of fighting all together.

 

[Storm Raven]

Remember, the first thing the SWAT team does is knock on the door and announce themselves.

My group used to get the readied actions up front by doing just that. After everyone else took cover with ranged weapons, the well armored Halfling Bard diplomat would knock on the door and wait for the bad guys to answer. Then she'd start negotiating with them. Everyone else readied actions to fire if negotiations failed and fighting started. And if she felt further talk was pointless, she'd cast Flare and take a 5' step to the side. The bad guys in the doorway got hammered.

This assumes that the DM would rule that combat had started when the party knocked on the door. Were I to be DMing such a party, initiative wouldn't start in your scenario until actual hostilities broke out, not when you knocked on the door and started negotiations.

 

[Artoomis]

This assumes that the DM would rule that combat had started when the party knocked on the door. Were I to be DMing such a party, initiative wouldn't start in your scenario until actual hostilities broke out, not when you knocked on the door and started initiative.

Yes, well, I'd allow it:

If the folks our side (allies) were hidden, then the "enemies not aware" rule kicks in and they get one free action before combat.

If everyone was aware of each other, I'd call combat begining and use intitiave from the just after the door opening. If the person (or whatever) should happen to attack immediately, then I might even call that a surprise round AGAINST the allies since the expectation was for at least some negotiation.

Generally spekaing, if it seems reasonable it probably should be allowed - but you normally only get one free action, not a whole round's worth.

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

Infiiniti, you mistook my reading of the rules.

At the start of a battle, each combatant makes an initiative check...

I treat it as if the aware side can 'start combat' by themselves. Once in initiative, they can stack in the order they wish, but the first one to act is the initiative number they fall behind.

Then, when they encounter the non-aware side, I treat is as if the non-aware is joining a battle in progress. No surprise round, but they may not be prepared and have to spend some time drawing weapons, dropping thier ale, whatever.

This method increases the usefullness of a succesful ambush as the party gets normal actions in the first round. Cyclic initiative solves the rest.
The ambushee's still get chances to notice the ambush, potentially messing up the entire deal.

I use the RAW as it is generally accepted in other situations, as I feel that the surprise round/initiative system works fairly well. The details of a well planned ambush are grey areas in the RAW. My intepretation tends to encourage players to plan ambushes instead of just jumping into combat only to have a different intepretation spoil the plan.

And, of course, turn about is fair play. The group occasionally faces similarly executed ambushes.

 

[Infiniti2000]

I treat it as if the aware side can 'start combat' by themselves. Once in initiative, they can stack in the order they wish, but the first one to act is the initiative number they fall behind.

I disagree that that can happen, per the rules. But, even if it can, my point about the 'keep in mind' comment is that your group can delay until initiative count 1000 before actually joining battle. That way, they guarantee to get a full round action with the enemy present. There's no way the enemies can get a higher than 1000 initiative count. Is it silly? Obviously. So, choose a more reasonable number. The number chosen is irrelevant though because the abuse is perfectly legal. That's why I challenge the underlying assumption that a character can 'start combat' without actually starting combat.

 

[Peter Gibbons]

This assumes that the DM would rule that combat had started when the party knocked on the door. Were I to be DMing such a party, initiative wouldn't start in your scenario until actual hostilities broke out, not when you knocked on the door and started initiative.

And that's exactly correct!

 

[Caliban]

I'm a little confused however. You are saying that with claravoyance and teleport, I can get a full round of actions, but, I can't do it by opening a door. That seems a little strange. Effectively they are the same action.

In the scry/teleport example, the clairvoyance takes place outside of combat (although if they spot the scry sensor it can tip them off). The wizard then uses the suprise round to teleport/d-door everyone inside, and everyone else uses their suprise round action to attack.

 

[Denaes]

In the scry/teleport example, the clairvoyance takes place outside of combat (although if they spot the scry sensor it can tip them off). The wizard then uses the suprise round to teleport/d-door everyone inside, and everyone else uses their suprise round action to attack.

The suprise round would start once the teleport ended, so the Wizard would get to act (unless teleport has some sort of recovery). You don't spend your suprise round before an enemy knows you're there. Thats just before combat.

 

[Caliban]

The suprise round would start once the teleport ended, so the Wizard would get to act (unless teleport has some sort of recovery). You don't spend your suprise round before an enemy knows you're there. Thats just before combat.

Most DM's I've played with count this as occuring in the suprise round. I choose not to argue the point, as it's a very powerful tactic.