Am I missing something about the OGL/D20 license?

[senodam]

OK, given the recent rumblings and doings out of WoTC lately, I'm starting to wonder whether the D20 license itself will survive much longer.
Now, I'm under the impression that the OGL can't be revoked, it's around forever right? However, a while back we all remember the Mind Flayer, Yuan-Ti et al being yanked out of the open content and declared IP by WoTC. What I'm wondering is, can they do this with everything in the license?

Could Wizards change the content of the license to the point that it was unusable? Can AC, Hit Points and the rest all be reclaimed- leaving just the open content that 3rd party companies have published? If not, then how were they able to do so with the monsters that were in the license at one point?
I'm not entirely clear on how things work with regards to the license, and would be grateful if someone out there could shed some light on this for me.

 

[WayneLigon]

Could Wizards change the content of the license to the point that it was unusable? Can AC, Hit Points and the rest all be reclaimed- leaving just the open content that 3rd party companies have published? If not, then how were they able to do so with the monsters that were in the license at one point?

I doubt that very strongly; those are concepts and ideas. If they could do so, they'd have done so many years ago and Gary Gygax would now be one of the richest men on Earth (since he'd have a slice of almost every single 'rpg' computer game ever made because all of them use those ideas and exact - or closely similar - terms).

 

[trancejeremy]

Stuff released under the OGL cannot be yanked, it's just that in the early days, the SRD wasn't officially released, there was a "gentleman's agreement" and a draft SRD. Later when the SRD was officially released, the Mind Flayer, Yuan-Ti , Beholder, etc, was not a part of it.

They can, OTOH, do whatever they want to the d20 license, including yanking it.

 

[trancejeremy]

I doubt that very strongly; those are concepts and ideas. If they could do so, they'd have done so many years ago and Gary Gygax would now be one of the richest men on Earth (since he'd have a slice of almost every single 'rpg' computer game ever made because all of them use those ideas and exact - or closely similar - terms).

Actually though, at one time TSR did go after companies that used those terms. AFAIK, they only threatened shareware RPGs, not full fledged companies (with lawyers on staff), and that was also I think part of their lawsuit against Mayfair (who started using terms like Hits to Kill instead of Hit points and the like for their generic products).

Like the head of JG at the time said (to paraphrase it), it doesn't matter whose right, it's about who has the most lawyers.

 

[Henry]

...in the early days, the SRD wasn't officially released, there was a "gentleman's agreement" and a draft SRD. Later when the SRD was officially released, the Mind Flayer, Yuan-Ti , Beholder, etc, was not a part of it.

Jeremy's got it dead-on. The rough draft SRD from 2000-2001 wasn't the finalized document. They haven't removed anything from the final SRD and won't be, because they cannot legally. They might stop hosting the "official" SRD, but anyone could incorporate its content into a release.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Gaming_License does a very good job of explaining the differences between the OGL, the SRD, and the d20 License. In one sentence:

OGL = mechanics license; irrevocable.

d20 STL = Trademark compatibility license, and more restricted than the OGL; revocable, and alterable.

SRD = the mechanics that WotC has released in online format for the OGL to use.

 

[senodam]

Stuff released under the OGL cannot be yanked, it's just that in the early days, the SRD wasn't officially released, there was a "gentleman's agreement" and a draft SRD. Later when the SRD was officially released, the Mind Flayer, Yuan-Ti , Beholder, etc, was not a part of it.

They can, OTOH, do whatever they want to the d20 license, including yanking it.

Ok, thanks Jeremy. I hadn't realised the SRD came about late in the game- I'd thought it was there from day 1.

 

[Ranger REG]

OK, given the recent rumblings and doings out of WoTC lately, I'm starting to wonder whether the D20 license itself will survive much longer.
Now, I'm under the impression that the OGL can't be revoked, it's around forever right?

Any released version of the Open Game License can never be revoked.

However, a while back we all remember the Mind Flayer, Yuan-Ti et al being yanked out of the open content and declared IP by WoTC. What I'm wondering is, can they do this with everything in the license?

If it's in the earlier released version of the SRD (not the beta version, IMHO), you can.

Could Wizards change the content of the license to the point that it was unusable? Can AC, Hit Points and the rest all be reclaimed- leaving just the open content that 3rd party companies have published? If not, then how were they able to do so with the monsters that were in the license at one point?

They can change the d20 System Trademark License. If that happens, WotC will note in the guide that products (new and reprint) published after the effective date of the license's new version must follow the new terms.

Then again, they may not. At which time, third-party publisher should be prepared to remove the "d20 system" logo and text of compatibility with WotC's products from their product. However, this option would only anger third-party publishers.

 

[JVisgaitis]

That's three threads we could merge... There are a few good explanations in here. http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=194442

 

[Delta]

However, a while back we all remember the Mind Flayer, Yuan-Ti et al being yanked out of the open content and declared IP by WoTC. What I'm wondering is, can they do this with everything in the license?

I'll just back up again what jeremy & Henry are saying. When 3E came out there was communication to the effect of, "We're going to have this OGL/SRD thing... here's what we think the SRD will sort of look like when we get done with it... use that to get started writing your compatible products". The Mind Flayer and Yuan-Ti were in that initial proposal, but not in the SRD when it was officially published.

This was a lot like new video game consoles being released. The manufacturer has to get a set of preliminary development tools to the game makers, so they can get work under way (a year or two in advance) and have games on the market (when the console actually goes on sale). But it's preliminary, and the console design changes even while the game makers work, and they have to be flexible and deal with that while in the development cycle.