Am I the only one who is sick of endless stat blocks?

[Holy Bovine]

Actually, I think feats would often be a better way of giving people from some organisation or region special abilities instead of writing up whole prestige classes. Just require a particular region of origin or membership in a particular organisation as a prerequisite.

Ideally, I'd like to allow characters to be more unique and flavorful while still being a member of the core classes only - instead of throwing a couple of hundreds of prestige classes into the mix. Thus, being able to customize the characters with feats and the like should take precedence over adding prestige classes.

You would probably really like the new Player's Guides coming out from Sword & Sorcery Studios then. They detail (abiet for the Scarred Lands campaign setting but should be adaptable) many organizations for the various classes and what Feats and Skills they are most likely to take (or are required to take). I found it makes for a much more interesting setting and will be using and encouraging their use for my players.

 

[Jürgen Hubert]

One day, I will meet someone who understands the difference between rarity in-game and rarity out-of-game.

If they are rare in-game and aren't going to have any noteworthy impact on the region in question, then why include them in the first place?

When I read a regional sourcebook, I want to know about the important stuff, not some rules about some people who nobody hardly ever meets and who are nothing special other than getting some tiny bonus in some circumstance or other.

In other words, they don't add anything of value to the book.

 

[Jürgen Hubert]

You would probably really like the new Player's Guides coming out from Sword & Sorcery Studios then. They detail (abiet for the Scarred Lands campaign setting but should be adaptable) many organizations for the various classes and what Feats and Skills they are most likely to take (or are required to take). I found it makes for a much more interesting setting and will be using and encouraging their use for my players.

Hmmm. Maybe I should take a look at them. Thanks for pointing them out.

 

[hong]

If they are rare in-game and aren't going to have any noteworthy impact on the region in question

One day I will meet someone who understands the difference between rare and having a noteworthy impact.

One day!

 

[bekkilyn_rpg]

Nope, you're not the only one.

In fact, after finding and buying A Magical Medieval Society at the game store recently, I was very pleased to see in big letters on the back, "No new spells, No new feats, No new classes," and I immediately thought, "If those statements had been prominently displayed on the front cover and I *hadn't* already heard about the greatness of the book on enworld, I would have been interested in it simply for those words alone!"

I alsouse RPG books for other games besides D&D, so I find books full of nothing but the crunchy "boring stuff" not as useful as loads and loads of inspiring flavor and ideas.

With PrCs, I only like them when they are setting specific, such as for Forgotten Realms, Scarred Lands, etc.

 

[Arnwyn]

No. No you're not. I (personally) get no use out of those endless city stat-blocks.

And while I am at it, what's up with all this prestige class inflation? Now don't get me wrong - prestige classes are an interesting concept, and can add a great deal of flavor to a campaign setting. But they should be rare - and it seems to me that these days no supplement can be considered "complete" without at least half a dozen prestige classes. If every book adds a slate of new ones, how special can they be?

Whoa... you're a little behind on the times, here. People have been complaining about that for more than a year now!

 

[Silveras]

If they are rare in-game and aren't going to have any noteworthy impact on the region in question, then why include them in the first place?

When I read a regional sourcebook, I want to know about the important stuff, not some rules about some people who nobody hardly ever meets and who are nothing special other than getting some tiny bonus in some circumstance or other.

In other words, they don't add anything of value to the book.

There are as many people who would say that the PrCs are "the important stuff", and that the flavor text is useless fluff. Many people (myself included) pick up these books looking for useful "crunchy bits" I can adapt to my homebrew world. The flavor text is the part I find relatively useless.

As for rarity and impact... often, the impact comes from rarity. The Knights of the Round Table, for example, could easily be an organization-based PrC. Their impact is quite disproportionate to their numbers, which were quite rare (what, 200 total out of the approximately 10 million people in England at that time period).

Even in the Realms, in cities with populations in excess of 10,000, there is a good chance that you see one or more of each PrC on the streest every day.

Personally, I think all new classes (PrC, NPC, or Base) should have one more piece of rules information included in their descriptions: the dice roll for highest level resident in any settlement. The DMG has the numbers for the highest level resident of each class in a settlement, but it does not include PrCs because PrCs are completely optional. I know FFG has added the Thug NPC class; Green Ronin's Master Class series has added a number of Base classes; the Miniatures Handbook will add more; and countless supplements have added PrCs -- but none (that I am aware of) have addressed how many and what level live in settlements. Including that information would give a much better guideline on how "rare" they are. The formula may get a bit complex, though; perhaps requiring minimum settlement sizes before some classes appear, or having maximum sizes after which the class disappears.

In the end, those endless stat blocks subsidize the flavor text. If you separate the two, you are likely to see the end of "flavor text" supplements for a game world as they become unprofitable to produce.

 

[Jürgen Hubert]

One day I will meet someone who understands the difference between rare and having a noteworthy impact.

One day!

I know the difference. But if something is both rare and doesn't have a noteworthy impact, chances are I don't need to know about it in a book with limited page count.

 

[Mystery Man]

No. No you're not. I (personally) get no use out of those endless city stat-blocks.

Whoa... you're a little behind on the times, here. People have been complaining about that for more than a year now!

....and you would think that they would listen. But no, the next set of books coming out of WoTC will have more RrC's feats, spells, stats etc.

This board, mailling lists, other forums all say the same thing. We want more content. We have enough feats and other crap to last a lifetime.

Why will they not listen?

If you can't tell I'm beginning to get more than a little bugged about this myself.

 

[Emirikol]

....and you would think that they would listen. But no, the next set of books coming out of WoTC will have more RrC's feats, spells, stats etc. This board, mailling lists, other forums all say the same thing. We want more content. We have enough feats and other crap to last a lifetime. Why will they not listen? If you can't tell I'm beginning to get more than a little bugged about this myself.

I didn't purchase the
Silver Marches, however after editing 25+ scenarios over the past few years for the RPGA, I've come to the same conclusion that DUNGEON magazine came to:

Stat blocks should only be full for characters that the PC's are either going to hire or kill. Otherwise, an abbreviated stat block is all that is necessary. E.g. Bob of the Silver Marches, male Hum, Com-10; Description: Bob is a know-it-all who sits in the bar and tells people how things should be, but won't lift a finger to help.

Complete stat blocks for characters that the PC's aren't going to hire or fight should be reserved for those people who like to read technical details on a Web Expansion.

Thoughts?

jh



..