Am I using the right system?

[payn]

Yeah I'm relatively familiar with that aspect of PF2e, although I've played it only a little. The people I played with were vehemently against using the proficiency without level variant (which I can totally understand given the type of fantasy PF2e seems to be looking to convey) so alas I didn't get to try that out as much as I would have liked. But perhaps another day~

For me I like the concept of being able to just plop down a bunch of stuff (a wolf den, a bandit camp, a roaming demon or something, just as a couple of examples) at the beginning of "world creation" and just leave it there until the players stumble across it and feel confident that when they do, they (usually) won't completely steamroll it or wipe it off the face of the planet. Nor, similarly, will they be unable to escape if they run into something far out of their league.

Yeap, I like that too. I even like that a few goblins is not thing to an experienced adventure group, but a hundred would always be an issue.

The proficiency without level doesnt really remove the super fantasy power at mid levels and beyond. It just delays it for a few levels and allows the PCs to punch above their weight a little (which is why I prefer it.)

 

[Himbo_Jones]

The proficiency without level doesnt really remove the super fantasy power at mid levels and beyond. It just delays it for a few levels and allows the PCs to punch above their weight a little (which is why I prefer it.)

When my players punch above their weight a little I get so dang giddy.

I like to have a lot of consumable items at shops (largely of the type that I've stolen from video games and other systems), so when I see my players stock up on barrels of gunpowder, ignitable arrows, firebombs, etc. and then pop out to see if they can set a trap to kill a wandering giant or something, I, as the GM, have an absolute blast.

 

[aramis erak]

From what you describe here, it's sounds like 5e or a variant like A5e really is what you want. It's the best I can think of that hits all these well.

I would think that Pathfinder 1e or a 3.5e game might be worth looking at, but it sounds like you already know that will mean tossing Bounded Accuracy out the window. They would do a good job of checking your other boxes, though.

PF 2E has a form of bounded accuracy, tho' it's much wider than D&D 5E.

 

[dbm]

If you substitute the phrase ‘flat character growth’ for ‘bounded accuracy’ then I would suggest there are many games which will scratch this itch, including a swathe of OSR games and modern fantasy games. Even a game like GURPS has a pretty flat power growth structure in my experience (though there are some ‘big’ advantages you could buy that are game changing, like Trained by a Master). Main branch (A)D&D is more the outlier in terms of character growth, in my experience.

 

[aramis erak]

If you substitute the phrase ‘flat character growth’ for ‘bounded accuracy’ then I would suggest there are many games which will scratch this itch, including a swathe of OSR games and modern fantasy games. Even a game like GURPS has a pretty flat power growth structure in my experience (though there are some ‘big’ advantages you could buy that are game changing, like Trained by a Master). Main branch (A)D&D is more the outlier in terms of character growth, in my experience.

I think you underestimate the number of games which exceed the growth rate of AD&D... literally multiple hundreds of variants on 3E alone, and a hundred or more of AD&D or BX/BECMI just in the last 25 years. Not to mention the several hundred D&D knock-offs with a few changes and/or better wording from before the OGL.

There are probably over a thousand D&D variants out there... and the #2 game in the world most of the last 10 years is a D&D variant, too: Pathfinder. And there's A5E, Draw Steel, Daggerheart, and a half dozen more in reaction to WotC asininity over the last 24 months.

And that's ignoring games like Rolemaster, which started as a set of optional combat mechanics for use in AD&D, but became its own thing, and has, potentially, even faster advancement...
Or, Palladium, where several dozen various Rifts classes (OCC/RCC) have massive increases due to specials which come in at mid levels...
Or, the Arcanum, which increases skills just like Palladium, but also adds more more often, and also increases casting or fighting prowess faster, but has only slightly lower HP advancement, and similar speed of leveling.

The D&D tree is more than half of what's played. The D&D tree is well more than half of what's sold. And most of the D&D tree is faster than any TSR D&D RAW. Excepting maybe a bunch of the OSR games... but even there....

Simply put, "Not part of the D&D main tree" = outlier in the industry, and = Outlier in terms of what's being played in Roll20 or other major VTTs. Which implies strongly that it also equals oultier overall, except perhaps in the total number of games ever released. Especially since almost every D&D variant advances faster than AD&D RAW... most often by simply omitting the nastiness that is the training and play quality requirements in AD&D... (buried in the DMG. If adhered to by the GM literally, they can halve the rate of, or even permanently prevent, advancement...)

Even many of the not-D&D games advance in power quickly - D6 Star Wars can rapidly get out of control given the 5-10 SP per session. Especially with Jedi - whose force abilities can exponentially grow power.

 

[dbm]

I think you underestimate the number of games which exceed the growth rate of AD&D... literally multiple hundreds of variants on 3E alone, and a hundred or more of AD&D or BX/BECMI just in the last 25 years. Not to mention the several hundred D&D knock-offs with a few changes and/or better wording from before the OGL.

Perhaps it would be more accurate to say systems other than (A)D&D and spin offs then. The d20 family tend so share that exponential growth, with the exception of BX family that is a bit more grounded. Look at other families like BRP and spin offs, Traveller spin offs, Advanced Fighting Fantasy and spin offs, Powered by the Apocalypse games, Forged in the Dark systems, Fate based systems. There are a lot of engines with much flatter growth curves than D&D and early off shoots like Palladium or RoleMaster (neither of which has sported many off shoots of their own IMO).

 

[Theory of Games]

Have you read anything about GURPS 4e? The system offers far more than D&D:

• The GM decides what the cap on skills will be, not the rules, so a GM never has to worry about the PCs slamming every encounter.
• Classes are restrictive because they present a limited amount of options. GURPS allows groups to create warriors, mages, healers and any combination imaginable without the rules dictating what exactly the characters can do. GURPS offers templates that provide an idea of what a certain character might look like, rather than how D&D is "your Class limits you to X, your Species limits you to Y, and your Background limits you to Z".
• I ran a lot of D&D (B/X, AD&D1, PF & 5e). I too found all the available homebrew and supplemental material (Bard Games and Dreamscarred Press were favs) really useful, especially when running games because the additional material gave me more options. With GURPS, you have all the options up-front. A common problem with D&D is the Cleric, Rogue and Wizard classes have all outpaced the Fighter in efficiency, leading to the regular "LF/QW" debates. With GURPS, we can make warriors who are very proficient in combat but not so effective that they become "broken".

Trying out GURPS Dungeon Fantasy might be the breath of fresh air you've been looking for.

GURPS Dungeon Fantasy

 

[Himbo_Jones]

I have been doing a bit more reading on A5E today and it seems like that's the direction I'm going to lean with this since it already has a lot of what I'm wanting from an RPG and, from what others have said, it should be easy for me to add in the little extra bits I want here and there. The only downside is that now I will need to take some of the homebrew classes from my vast library and see about eventually converting them to A5E and bringing them in line with the base classes.

On that note, could anyone offer some additional reading that might offer some homebrewing guidelines (particularly for classes/subclasses)? I'm certainly going to read through all the rules first, but I am curious as to what might already be out there~

Have you read anything about GURPS 4e? The system offers far more than D&D

That being said, I am somewhat familiar with GURPS and had a phase last year where I thought I was going to make it my main RPG of choice. That still may be the case, because there is a lot to love about GURPS, but I did get initially overwhelmed (which I understand is the normal response to people just starting out with that system).

 

[Theory of Games]

Yeah. GURPS can really do it all and yeah, there's a learning curve. But once you get it, you'll wish you had gotten it years earlier.

 

[Corinnguard]

I have been doing a bit more reading on A5E today and it seems like that's the direction I'm going to lean with this since it already has a lot of what I'm wanting from an RPG and, from what others have said, it should be easy for me to add in the little extra bits I want here and there. The only downside is that now I will need to take some of the homebrew classes from my vast library and see about eventually converting them to A5E and bringing them in line with the base classes.

On that note, could anyone offer some additional reading that might offer some homebrewing guidelines (particularly for classes/subclasses)? I'm certainly going to read through all the rules first, but I am curious as to what might already be out there~


That being said, I am somewhat familiar with GURPS and had a phase last year where I thought I was going to make it my main RPG of choice. That still may be the case, because there is a lot to love about GURPS, but I did get initially overwhelmed (which I understand is the normal response to people just starting out with that system).

Outside of the official material for Level Up: A5e from EN Publishing, you should check out some of the Level Up material from several of its' 3pp sources.

Third Party Products | Level Up

a5e.tools

My favorite 3pp source for Level Up: A5e is the Manual of Adventurous Resources (MoAR as in More): Complete from Purple Martin Games.

DriveThruRPG

www.drivethrurpg.com