D&D 5E Amber Temple Vestiges [CoS spoilers!]

[pukunui]

Hi all,

I haven't seen much discussion about the individual vestiges present in the Amber Temple in Curse of Strahd. I recognize some of the names but not all of them.

The one that stands out the most for me is Shami-Amourae. She has a bit of history in D&D lore, being the original Queen of the Succubi. She was Demogorgon's consort, but conspired against him in an effort to get him to move against her main rival, Malcanthet. The latter then told Demogorgon what was going on, and he imprisoned Shami-Amourae in the Wells of Darkness. Part of the Savage Tide AP involves freeing Shami-Amourae from her prison.

That leaves me wondering how she ended up being reduced to a mere vestige and trapped in the temple. The description of the temple makes it sound like the vestiges have been there for centuries, so I guess maybe that means that the Savage Tide AP is not "canonical" as far as there is such a thing with D&D lore. Doesn't really bother me. Just curious.


I also recognize Tenebrous. He's one of the vestiges in the 3.5 Tome of Magic, the last remaining bits from when Orcus was briefly an undead god (see the 2e Dead Gods Planescape adventure).

Savnok and Dahlver-Nar are also from the Tome of Magic, which first introduced the idea of vestiges, IIRC.

It looks like Delban, Khirad, and Zhudun all date back to the 4e star pact warlock, if not even earlier.

I am wondering if Yog the Invincible is a reference to Yog-Sothoth.


As far as I can tell, the rest of them are all new, although it's possible they're pre-existing entities that just aren't showing up on google for whatever reason. They are:

- Fekre, Queen of Poxes
- Zrin-Hala, the Howling Storm
- Sykane, the Soul Hungerer
- Tarakamedes, the Grave Wyrm
- Drizlash, the Nine-Eyed Spider
- Zantras, the Kingmaker
- Yrgga, the Eye of Shadows
- Great Taar Haak, the Five-Headed Destroyer
- Norganas, the Finger of Oblivion
- Vaund the Evasive
- Seriach, the Hell Hound Whisperer

I wonder if some of them are Easter eggs/inside jokes.


Then there are the names on some of the vaults: Shalx, Maverus, Harkotha, and Thangob. I wonder who they were. Google's got nothing on any of them either.


Anyone know anything more about any of these guys?


Cheers,
Jonathan

 

[Jester David]

Part of the Savage Tide AP involves freeing Shami-Amourae from her prison.
That leaves me wondering how she ended up being reduced to a mere vestige and trapped in the temple. The description of the temple makes it sound like the vestiges have been there for centuries, so I guess maybe that means that the Savage Tide AP is not "canonical" as far as there is such a thing with D&D lore. Doesn't really bother me. Just curious

Given the canon hatchet job done to Strahd and Ravenloft in the module, and the Cult of the Dragon & Tiamat in ToD, and ignoring of Greyhawk for Elemental Evil I imagine it wasn't so much a question of Savage Tide not being canon as them not caring.

The 5e approach to D&D canon is a little like how Agents of SHELD or Arrow treat the canon of the source comics: it exists as a source of fun names for Easter eggs and maybe some loose inspiration.

 

[I'm A Banana]

Thanks for compiling that!

The only one I remembered was Tenebrous (yeah, he was Orcus's alter-ego).

 

[pukunui]

Given the canon hatchet job done to ... the Cult of the Dragon & Tiamat in ToD

As I've pointed out before, there is a lot more to Tiamat's takeover of the cult than you seem to think. The seeds for it go all the way back to the TSR days. Definitely no hatchet job there. Rather, someone did their homework and brought a storyline that was a long time in coming to its logical conclusion.

That being said, I'm not particularly fussed about D&D canon, if such a thing even exists. I'm just curious really. I've asked Chris Perkins if there's anything to the fact that Shami-Amourae has ended up a mere vestige of her former self. Will post his response here if I get one.

Thanks for compiling that!

No worries! As I said, I was curious, and since nobody else seems to be talking about it (anywhere on the web, not just here - at least, nowhere that google patrols), I thought I'd attempt to get a discussion going.

 

[Savage Wombat]

The Teeth of Dahlver-Nar were in the original DMG as artifacts.

 

[pukunui]

The Teeth of Dahlver-Nar were in the original DMG as artifacts.

Cool. What did they do?

 

[Jester David]

As I've pointed out before, there is a lot more to Tiamat's takeover of the cult than you seem to think. The seeds for it go all the way back to the TSR days. Definitely no hatchet job there. Rather, someone did their homework and brought a storyline that was a long time in coming to its logical conclusion.

A few months ago I might have bought it. Now I think the misread prophecy angle was just a happy coincidence that didn't contradict.
And there's still the issue of how Tiamat ended up "trapped in the Nine Hells".

They had their story to tell, canon be damned. What worked worked, and what didn't was made to work.

 

[Ath'kethin]

They had their story to tell, canon be damned. What worked worked, and what didn't was made to work.

Sounds like 100% percent of DMs I know. Isn't that the point of having a game instead of just a novel series?

 

[Ath'kethin]

Cool. What did they do?

As good a place to start as any: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teeth_of_Dahlver-Nar

 

[evilbob]

The 5e approach to D&D canon

How can D&D have cannon? Literally everything that happens at my table has nothing to do with whatever happens at your table. And every edition they re-write all the gods, powers, power sources, etc. anyway. Are there novels that people are talking about? Even still, the entire point of D&D is that you make your own stories, so there's no real "centralized" world to speak of. Even stuff like Forgotten Realms and Eberron are just basically lore modules you can bolt on as you like.