D&D 5E Amber Temple Vestiges [CoS spoilers!]

[Jester David]

Well, it's a good thing we have you here to tell us they aren't Forgotten Realms adventures then!

It's not like any of them focus on an established Realms story, like Szass Tam and the changes to Thay or the political conflicts of Cormyr. Or deities unique to the Realms, like Bane or Mask.
Following the Sundering (or during the Sundering itself) there's lots of stories unique to the Realms that are tied to Realmslore that fit the world.

Heck, Murder in Baldur's Gate and Legacy of the Crystal Shard were very much FR adventures, tied to the past and expanding on the setting.

 

[Jackdaw]

How can D&D have cannon? Literally everything that happens at my table has nothing to do with whatever happens at your table. And every edition they re-write all the gods, powers, power sources, etc. anyway. Are there novels that people are talking about? Even still, the entire point of D&D is that you make your own stories, so there's no real "centralized" world to speak of. Even stuff like Forgotten Realms and Eberron are just basically lore modules you can bolt on as you like.

I agree. Canon is there to be messed with, especially canon that's so esoteric and specialized that the PCs would have no way of knowing it. It's just a meta wink, which can be fun, but I find it strips a story of mystery and puts the players in a very safe headspace, which is a horrible place to be when you're exploring and adventuring.

I've been struggling with ways to make the the Amber Temple more frightening in my own campaign, but so far I'm stuck in the Dante's Inferno + Lovecraft's Ancient Ones rut that seems to bog down the genre (and the hobby). I'd love to have the Amber Temple be terrifyingly unfamiliar territory to my players.

 

[Mouseferatu]

I've been struggling with ways to make the the Amber Temple more frightening in my own campaign, but so far I'm stuck in the Dante's Inferno + Lovecraft's Ancient Ones rut that seems to bog down the genre (and the hobby). I'd love to have the Amber Temple be terrifyingly unfamiliar territory to my players.

Why not--and I'm just sort of thinking aloud here, I haven't thought this through--make it less of a temple and more of a laboratory? The lich and the others who dwell there aren't caretakers, they're arcane "mad scientists" studying the very nature of evil (perhaps in an effort to understand the Dark Powers). The vestiges are the last echoes/remnants of great evils that these "scientists" have literally reassembled from the ether over the course of their experiments. They can barely keep them contains, and have no idea what to do with them. Some want to study/question them, some want to find some way of sending them back to the non-existence whence they came, and some have slowly gone and now actually do worship/serve these beings in secret.

 

[Mouseferatu]

You could even use the "arcane laboratory" setup to include the Apparatus from "House on Gryphon Hill," if you wanted to drop in other Ravenloft Easter eggs. Or the equipment to make the corpse golems that Strahd's castle has in other RL supplements, but didn't in the original adventure and doesn't in CoS.

 

[MonsterEnvy]

It was never their primary thing though. It changed the entire focus and purpose of the cult to further their Tiamat story.


They took a Greyhawk story and moved it to the Realms. Sounds pretty ignory to me.

The fact remains WotC had their story to tell. They really wanted Tiamat to attack with dragons, a retelling of Temple of Elemental Evil, a demon invasion of the Underdark, and a retelling of Castle Ravenloft. And they're going to do what they want and make it work, even if it's not a good fit for the world and canon. They haven't told three Forgotten Realms adventures, they've told three generic adventures that have been forced into the Realms but could have just as easily been set anywhere.

The cult took on new leadership that was fans of Tiamat. Stuff happens and groups change. There were still members of it who wanted to go back to the Dracolich thing.

It's not a Greyhawk Story nor is it a retelling of Temple of Elemental Evil. It has nothing it common with the temple of elemental evil other then the name Elemental Evil (Ironically there was very little Elemental Evil in the Temple). Curse of Strahd is a Retelling of Ravenloft. Princes of the Apocalpyse is just another episode of Elemental Evil and the stuff it does.

 

[Jackdaw]

Why not--and I'm just sort of thinking aloud here, I haven't thought this through--make it less of a temple and more of a laboratory? The lich and the others who dwell there aren't caretakers, they're arcane "mad scientists" studying the very nature of evil (perhaps in an effort to understand the Dark Powers). The vestiges are the last echoes/remnants of great evils that these "scientists" have literally reassembled from the ether over the course of their experiments. They can barely keep them contains, and have no idea what to do with them. Some want to study/question them, some want to find some way of sending them back to the non-existence whence they came, and some have slowly gone and now actually do worship/serve these beings in secret.

Interesting angle, but I think liches and "ancient evils" are going to seem commonplace to my players. What I'm looking for is something that throws them off kilter and truly frightens and weirds them out - the players as much as the characters. It's a tall order. Basically something new.

 

[Mouseferatu]

Interesting angle, but I think liches and "ancient evils" are going to seem commonplace to my players. What I'm looking for is something that throws them off kilter and truly frightens and weirds them out - the players as much as the characters. It's a tall order. Basically something new.

Fair enough. The lich is easy enough to change; I don't care for him being there at all, honestly.

As far as the "ancient evils," what if they're not ancient at all? What if these are new creations, amalgamations or mutations of the evil urges and personality traits of people who have recently died in Barovia? The PCs' actions might even have contributed to the creation of some of them.

 

[ZzarkLinux]

As far as I can tell, the rest of (the vestiges) are all new, although it's possible they're pre-existing entities that just aren't showing up on google for whatever reason. They are:

- Fekre, Queen of Poxes
- Zrin-Hala, the Howling Storm
- Sykane, the Soul Hungerer
- Tarakamedes, the Grave Wyrm
- Drizlash, the Nine-Eyed Spider
- Zantras, the Kingmaker
- Yrgga, the Eye of Shadows
- Great Taar Haak, the Five-Headed Destroyer
- Norganas, the Finger of Oblivion
- Vaund the Evasive
- Seriach, the Hell Hound Whisperer

I wonder if some of them are Easter eggs/inside jokes.

They don't ring a bell for me either.

I wonder if some of them are plants for future products. Like how MagicTG will put random character quotes into the flavor text. Then one of the characters will randomly appear as a card in a later set. Though I don't think this would work for D&D, as WotC doesn't do enough releases to D&D to follow that model.

Maybe some are just fodder for DMsGuild authors. Though if this is the case, then maybe they could have given eaxh vestiege a little more than a three-word snippet.

I hope they aren't just discarded ideas or filler. If that was the case, then I'd prefer they add it to a "bonus artwork and sketches" section at the end of the book.