D&D (2024) Amnesia Sequence Yea/Nay?

[Umbran]

Pros -

• Preserves the mystery a while longer
• Requires less prep work on my part
• Pre-empts the possibility of the PCs getting themselves in a fight they can't actually handle
• Doesn't waste time on a fight the PCs are likely to lose, which might not be fun.

If you want to use this as a different way to telegraph, "You do not want to mess with these people now," make sure that message is crystal clear. Like, with a note saying, "We didn't have to let you live. Next time, we won't." or something.

Cons -

• Violates player agency
• Nothing really to stop the PCs from just going back.
• Heavy-handed / unsubtle

Subtlety is overrated, especially when talking about giving players information. Anything subtle is at risk of going unnoticed.

 

[Lanefan]

Seems lazy…which you already allude to, so that’s not news. Also, if it’s a fight the players are unlikely to win, then why have it there, unless there’s a way around it?

It’s a very railroad-ish device.

It is, but now and then a careful bit of railroading can be a good thing.

 

[Lanefan]

I want the party to know about the stronghold and the faction. It's more that I'd prefer a slow reveal in a perfect world and I was thinking that maybe the amnesia sequence might be one way to trickle the information in slowly and alert them to possible danger. The faction doesn't want the party to know about the faction.

The party has already encountered watch-beasts set to guard the periphery of the stronghold. And has some indication that the beasts are being fed by....something. They've also come across a slave outpost run by the faction, though they mostly avoided it and received little in the way of clues that it was any such thing.

One possibility might be to take it up a notch further:

Step 1 - the PCs (and players) meet the stronghold and faction as you've already proposed BUT as DM you ban the players from taking any notes of any kind during this sequence; which ends in some sort of fade-to-black moment (the PCs smell gas and then pass out, for example).

Step 2 - the PCs "come to" at some very-faraway and rather unsafe place with no idea how they got there and with only the players' memories of what recently happened. If asked, you-as-DM give NO clarifications or reminders of anything that occurred after they first saw (or entered?) the stronghold - they've got their player-side memory to go on and that's it; and wherever they are they've got other issues to deal with.

Step 3 - the process of getting from where they are to back home represents a big chunk of the campaign and involves a series of adventures, the intent being these adventures give the PCs enough levels etc. that by the time they get back to the stronghold they're somewhat capable of dealing with its occupants.

Step 4 - by the time they get back to the stronghold* the players' memories should be fuzzy enough that they can roleplay their PCs' quasi-amnesia about the place just fine.

Step 5 - after the PCs have dealt with the stronghold, or at some key point during this process when the PCs get their memories back, you update your player-viewable game logs to include everything that happened the first time they were there.

* - and if they never get back there or decide in the meantime to go different directions and do different things because one or more of the intervening adventures has captured their imagination then so be it; that's the DM-side risk here.

 

[Shadowdweller00]

If anyone cares: I ultimately decided against using the amnesia (/drugging) sequence. Instead, I placed an outpost of the stronghold (essentially a satellite garrison set to guard the path to the main faction stronghold) inside a cave system that the PCs were exploring. They were able to discover a cultivated shrieker patch, a tripwire hidden in a murky pool of water, and some evidence that a missing person that they were looking for had passed through the area. One of the party members was able to find a well-hidden doorway disguised as solid rock (which was sealed tightly and lacked any apparent means of being opened from the side facing the party). As well as a hidden peephole through which they were being watched by someone. As the party started to make a fuss, they were told by a gruff voice to go away. They eventually managed to negotiate (speaking through the peephole to a person they couldn't make out clearly) the release of a captive in exchange for doing so. The captive had been kept blindfolded and was only dimly aware of who their captors might have been. She had been attacked and subdued by armored and cowled warriors; she had been able to see their equipment and the glint of their eyes but nothing else. The party had precious little evidence as to even what species they may have been. A couple party members were able to hear discussions in a gutteral language from the other side of the wall that none of them understood; but the players were able to correctly deduce what it was. At least one party member was able to piece together exactly who the faction was based upon the weapons they had been seen using (completely on their own).

Overall, I'm pretty satisfied at the amount of information gained. The party doesn't understand the scale of threat that they face yet; but they at least have a general sense of who the faction is and where they are. I'm honestly a bit proud of (/impressed by) their ability to make sense of the clues. One party member considered casting a fireball through the peephole, which might have gone poorly; but ultimately decided against it. They did engage in some mild vandalism in response to the rough treatment the captive they freed had been subjected and the general rudeness of the faction.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

If you want to use this as a different way to telegraph, "You do not want to mess with these people now," make sure that message is crystal clear. Like, with a note saying, "We didn't have to let you live. Next time, we won't." or something.

The trouble with this approach is that what if the players come back in a couple of levels and they are a pushover? They are going to feel railroaded, because the only real reason they didn't defeat them earlier is the DM didn't let them try.

 

[DEFCON 1]

Overall, I'm pretty satisfied at the amount of information gained. The party doesn't understand the scale of threat that they face yet; but they at least have a general sense of who the faction is and where they are. I'm honestly a bit proud of (/impressed by) their ability to make sense of the clues. One party member considered casting a fireball through the peephole, which might have gone poorly; but ultimately decided against it. They did engage in some mild vandalism in response to the rough treatment the captive they freed had been subjected and the general rudeness of the faction.

Congrats on putting together a viable substitute! Sounds like you have set up a very nice longer-term plothook for the group and that it was memorable enough for them to recall things about it when they delve deeper into this organization further down the line.

 

[DragonLancer]

There is an episode of Star Trek TNG where this plot issue basically comes up. It's a mystery so they crew try to go back and investigate/solve what happened. I can say from experience that the same thing would happen with players. No player is going to leave that mystery unsolved and they'll go back.

If you don't want them to know abut this group, I'd suggest just not having the characters encounter them. Seems an easier course of action which won't lead, most likely, to the whole amnesia thing being a wasted plot point.

 

[billd91]

I want the party to know about the stronghold and the faction. It's more that I'd prefer a slow reveal in a perfect world and I was thinking that maybe the amnesia sequence might be one way to trickle the information in slowly and alert them to possible danger. The faction doesn't want the party to know about the faction.

The party has already encountered watch-beasts set to guard the periphery of the stronghold. And has some indication that the beasts are being fed by....something. They've also come across a slave outpost run by the faction, though they mostly avoided it and received little in the way of clues that it was any such thing.

If the faction is supposed to be secretive yet their stronghold can just be blundered into, it's not a very good secret stronghold. So maybe the need here is to have a convincing cover the stronghold operates under when potential unfriendlies are in the area. Or maybe other distractions like other notable conspirators or messengers coming and going that may draw them away on info-gathering missions rather than confronting/infiltrating the stronghold.

You've got watch beasts of some sort the PCs have encountered and outposts the PCs have avoided. Why did the PCs avoid the outpost and can you leverage the same way of thinking with the main stronghold? If they avoided it to lower the risk of the main stronghold being alerted, that may be hard. But if they avoided it because it looked formidable or low reward/high risk, then maybe you can do the same with the stronghold.

 

[CleverNickName]

I think it's a cool idea. It wouldn't work for my gaming group--the players are far too invested in their character backstories to endure that kind of shift--but not everything needs to cater to our preferences. I say: go for it!

 

[Shadowdweller00]

If the faction is supposed to be secretive yet their stronghold can just be blundered into, it's not a very good secret stronghold.

The faction stronghold is hidden underground in a barren, difficult-to-reach, monster-filled wilderness region. There is little reason for the overwhelming majority of sentient species to go there. The PCs themselves were only there because I placed some plot hooks in the region. (In this case a dragon to hunt and a missing person). In some part, once again, because I had hoped to introduce the faction.

Why did the PCs avoid the outpost and can you leverage the same way of thinking with the main stronghold? If they avoided it to lower the risk of the main stronghold being alerted, that may be hard. But if they avoided it because it looked formidable or low reward/high risk, then maybe you can do the same with the stronghold.

Unlike the stronghold, the slave outpost was in plain sight. The party scouted it out from a distance and decided that what they were looking for wasn't there and that the place wasn't worth bothering with. They THEN decided to explore a terrain feature where the Stronghold WAS located. The problem with a subterranean stronghold being that PCs can't tell what's inside. But that is, nevertheless, essentially what I ended up doing. I made the gateway to the enormous stronghold itself look it could just have been a smaller, fortified tribal lair. Like an orc cave, for example. With residents that are peculiarly well-equipped, secretive and xenophobic.