Ampersand: Sneak Attack

[Dragonblade]

Awesome, awesome stuff. Quick summation of what look like the highlights:
1 - Int doesn't affect your amount of trained skills.
2 - Con only affects healing surges and 1st level hitpoints, not subsequent levels.
3 - Dmg is a LOT lower than it was in 3.x - only 5d6 sneak attack damage at Epic Tier? Sounds like that Pit Fiend is a lot more powerful than the haters assumed.
4 - Seems like AC is generally going to be lower than Reflex defense (see the extra abilities available in the one power, which is identical to the other except the one with more options targets Reflex instead of AC)
5 - Combat Advantage looks to be a significant new term - it clearly replaces flanking (and flat-footed?), and powers the Rogue's Sneak Attack. I wonder what affect it has for other classes?

I don't think we know enough about Int to say definitively about its effect on skills yet.

And Combat Advantage is explained, along with the new 4e saving throw mechanic in the D&D Minis rules. You can download the rulebook from WotC and check it out.

 

[Vayden]

I don't think we know enough yet. I bet Int bonus probably gives you extra trained skills or something or lets you add skills to your class list that you can choose to be trained in.

I wouldn't count on it. Mmmm, delicious sacred beef.

 

[Fallen Seraph]

Hmm... It also seems that Weapon Proficiency is different and not based of basic, martial, exotic. But specific weapons like with the rogue:

Weapon Proficiencies: Dagger, hand crossbow, shuriken, sling, short sword

So we got 3-basic weapons and 2-exotic weapons there.

 

[Vayden]

The flat damage bonus to sneak attack is probably a good thing when you consider, there's +1/2 your level damage to attacks that your character gets.

Do we know that for sure, or have we all just been assuming that because of SWSE? Just saying, this is the biggest single piece of crunch we've seen yet, and I don't see anything in there about adding your level/half your level to anything. I think it's been confirmed that you add it to skill rolls, but I'm not sure you'll be adding it to attacks/damage. Remember, in SWSE you didn't have magic weapons and armor, but it was confirmed that +X wpns/armor are still going to be in 4E.

 

[Rechan]

Not a lot of weapon options, there.

 

[Vayden]

Hmm... It also seems that Weapon Proficiency is different and not based of basic, martial, exotic. But specific weapons like with the rogue:

Weapon Proficiencies: Dagger, hand crossbow, shuriken, sling, short sword

So we got 3-basic weapons and 2-exotic weapons there.

Yeah, that short weapon list makes me remember the rogue in the early playtest who was wielding the greataxe for the dmg, even though he wasn't proficient. (Though they did nerf the greataxe after that, IIRC)

 

[Kobold Avenger]

I noticed that rapier isn't a weapon that rogues automatically know how to use. But I'm sure that a lot of players will simply pick an option that allows them to be proficient with a rapier.

 

[Fallen Seraph]

That is also interesting considering how they said the swashbuckler was partially divided up into the rogue, guess not the rapier part.

 

[The Shadow]

Wow!

Just wow.

Some of my immediate thoughts, in no particular order:

* Non-random hit-points!! If you are as terrible at rolling dice as I am, this means a lot!

* Only one defense bonus - wasn't expecting that, but it *is* consistent with 3e.

* Number of healing surges apparently depends on one's class. Didn't expect that either.

* I'm not terribly pleased with being told I *have* to take Thievery - though it will depend on just exactly what that skill does. But it's easy enough to house-rule that you just pick six off the list.

* I was expecting Bluff and Intimidate to be folded together; guess not. I'm also surprised that "Insight" (Sense Motive?) isn't part of Perception.

* Confirmation that humans still get an extra feat at 1st level, looks like. And it looks like it can be any feat - we know Toughness isn't human-exclusive. It also appears that humans are the only race to get bonus feats.

* A feat called Backstabber... since they've already got Sneak Attack, I wonder just what this does?

* 1st level characters get 2 at-wills, 1 encounter power, and 1 daily power. I wonder how that ratio holds up with more levels?

* You can use some Charisma skills in place of attacks. Interested to see how it's done these days - I love playing taunting, laughing rogues.

* Brutal Scoundrel: Huh. Don't you already get Str bonus to your Sneak Attack? Guess not. Artful Dodger looks tasty too.

* A little bit of love for daggers - and shuriken, of all things.

* Sneak Attack: Do crits let you max this out also? Brutal, if so.

* Powers: Most add Dex-mod to damage; Brutal Scoundrels can add Str on top of that for some of them. But then why does it say under "Brawny Rogue" that Str adds damage "directly"? Is there any option to do a plain-vanilla attack, as opposed to an at-will power? (I think surely there must - surely wizards don't *have* to use spells, they can swing a staff if they wish.)

* Crimson Edge is NASTY. Easy to see why it's a per-day power. Torturous Strike looks like it'll be a wasted power beyond 20th level - or perhaps not, I'm not sure how the per-encounter stuff works yet. It does look like they're working hard to make low-level powers still viable later on.

* Powers apparently don't shift categories as you go up in level. Once an encounter power, always an encounter power, or so it seems.

This has definitely whetted my appetite for more!

 

[Kobold Avenger]

Do we know that for sure, or have we all just been assuming that because of SWSE? Just saying, this is the biggest single piece of crunch we've seen yet, and I don't see anything in there about adding your level/half your level to anything. I think it's been confirmed that you add it to skill rolls, but I'm not sure you'll be adding it to attacks/damage. Remember, in SWSE you didn't have magic weapons and armor, but it was confirmed that +X wpns/armor are still going to be in 4E.

Races & Class mentions that all classes get the +1/2 level bonus to attacks, skill checks, defenses and AC. I'm sure I remember a mention of damage also being on this list.