Ampersand: Sneak Attack

[Wormwood]

I pray that was sarcasm.... as if this train of thought hadn't been presented about 28 times already by people who weren't trained in "Gather Information" *cheap joke rim-shot*

No it wasn't sarcasm. I may have missed this the first 28 times. So what?

 

[nightspaladin]

I personally think we are going to end up seeing something like this

Each weapon will list a profiencies on the weapon chart(we already know that they do from critical hit preview)

So Rapier may simply say proficencies short sword on the the weapon table

This next part is complete conjecture but it is my guess based on the way they seem to like predictability in 4e design and the new weapon abilities

I think we will see all the weapons with one type of proficencies all do the same samage. For example, the gladiuss, short sword and rapier may all list short sword as the proficency. They will all do d6 damage. The difference between the three will lie in the weapon abilities. short sword may by "Versitile", rapier may be "High Crit" etc etc. We know these exist from the critical hit preview as well. So maybe your choice of weapon will not come down so much to damage, but what extra little trick to you want your weapon to do,

 

[Lizard]

Eek!! Even a 1st level rogue who pushes charisma or is of a high-charisma race can push around a big brute an insane distance. 25' (5 squares) would not be out of the question at all. In fact, this seems like you could possibly push something like a Dwarf around a greater distance than his move rate just by being charismatic and artful??? And/yet it needs a light blade to work and is called a shove.

Shades of the Samurai-cleave-teleport!

Can you use this on an ally?

Are there any terrain effect limits?

I going to guess 'squares' is also a unit of movement cost, so if terrain costs, say, 3 squares to move in, he will move only 1 (real) square for every 3 points of charisma bonus...

It's hard to imagine how a halfling can 'feint and shove' an ogre 20 feet, indeed.

 

[Wolfspider]

Shades of the Samurai-cleave-teleport!

The what?

 

[Wolfspider]

Eek!! Even a 1st level rogue who pushes charisma or is of a high-charisma race can push around a big brute an insane distance. 25' (5 squares) would not be out of the question at all. In fact, this seems like you could possibly push something like a Dwarf around a greater distance than his move rate just by being charismatic and artful???

Amusing image.

 

[Remathilis]

Having missed all the good discussion, I just want to say I'm happy with the rogue so far...

Ironically, my namesake PC was an elf rogue. I can make him in 4e now!

 

[Lizard]

The what?

I cannot find the exact rule now, but there was some OA feat or ability that allowed a character to take a 5 foot step after each cleave, without any apparent limit, so the thought came that you could line a row of peasants up, have a samurai attack one, and move an almost unlimited distance in a single round as long as each peasant died on the first hit, not impossible given a high-level samurai.

 

[Sir Brennen]

The _only_ point in the article that left me thinking "What?!!?!?" is the synergy modification in the Positioning Strike. By itself the Strike is a very interesting and balanced tactic. A great way to slide an opponent one square using your mental cunning instead of a strength based bull-rush. But add in Artful Dodger and get: "Artful Dodger: You slide the target a number of squares equal to your Charisma modifier."

Eek!! Even a 1st level rogue who pushes charisma or is of a high-charisma race can push around a big brute an insane distance. 25' (5 squares) would not be out of the question at all. In fact, this seems like you could possibly push something like a Dwarf around a greater distance than his move rate just by being charismatic and artful??? And/yet it needs a light blade to work and is called a shove.

Well, you said yourself, it's not a strength based bull-rush. It's a feint, getting your opponent off balance enough that just a light poke will send him stumbling away from you. The Artful Dodger just really knows how to taunt an opponent into overextending themselves, or rush them, using the target's own momentum against them.

That said, I could see defenders and dwarves having abilities which help them resist/reduce sliding. Size could also be a factor; every size category a target is above the attacker might reduce the maximum sliding distance by one square, for example.

Until we know how sliding works, it's a little to soon to say "OMG! This is broken!"

It's hard to imagine how a halfling can 'feint and shove' an ogre 20 feet, indeed.

Not at all. That ogre really has to lean over to smack that little halfing. Easy pickin's.

 

[Henry]

The what?

If I'm recalling it correctly, the theory goes that a Samurai from the old 3e rules, with the Supreme Cleave class ability, could line up a bunch of mooks in a straight line, start killing one of them, step 5 feet, kill another, step 5 feet, kill another, etc. to well beyond his move. he could move an infinite number of mooks in distance, leading to measuring distances not in miles, but in "mooks."

"The town of Grossberg is pretty far from here -- at least 142,000 mooks away."

 

[Lizard]

Well, you said yourself, it's not a strength based bull-rush. It's a feint, getting your opponent off balance enough that just a light poke will send him stumbling away from you. The Artful Dodger just really knows how to taunt an opponent into overextending themselves, or rush them, using the target's own momentum against them.

This makes sense if it can only be used against a charging/moving opponent, and I can see a one-square slide due to stumbling and regaining balance, but it's really hard to visualize a fighter holding his ground being tossed back 10+ feet simply because a rogue did some fancy footwork or even tripped him, without ANY regard to size/weight differences.