Ampersand: Sneak Attack

[Mad Mac]

I think coming up with one set explanation for why all martial powers are limited isn't going to work well. There's always going to be a few powers that defy any mold you create. And developer time can probably be better spent than coming up a detailed explanation of the natural limits of every martial power they create.

Personally, I tend to explain stuff like this on a case by case basis. It might be that no-one ever falls for Explosive Badger Trouser Suprise more than once per fight, while Super Hippo Slam is just too exhausting to use more than once without taking a breather first, and Crimson Edge requires incredibly precise timing and luck for even the most skilled fighter.

 

[AllisterH]

And just as a note the Bo9S explanation wouldn't fly for anyone in my games. What I am off balance for the rest of the fight so I can't perform a blade twist, but I can perform a double back flip surprise?

If its an encounter power that you've used already? Of course.

Using the Bo9S, you've used ki to strengthen your arms to perform a blade twist and the muscles of said arm can't perform that manoeuver again without resetting your ki while the manoeuver to do a double back flip surprise uses different muscles and they haven't experienced a ki surge this encounter as yet.

The thing about Bo9S is that it doesn't say "You're off-balanced". It says you're off-balanced/distracted/ki-drained/need to refocus (pick one).

Anyway, I don't think the actual powers will have this explanation anyway since like B09S, the obvious place to put it is at the head of the "Encounter-powers" section.

 

[Campbell]

I know this won't cure the ills of the more immersion oriented among us, but I tend to see Daily and Encounter Powers as a form of narrative control being handed to the players. It's not that a given character is literally incapable of performing the actions represented by the Powers more often than the limitations in the rules allow, its that they don't. It's just not appropriate for cinematic or narratively appropriate for a character to continually perform these daring feats.

In the rogue's case I'd say that their special abilities require specific openings in their opponents' defenses which don't come along that often. Rather than having the DM detail these openings and have the rogue's player react to them, we instead give the player of the rogue a limited amount of narrative power to determine when his opponents leave him with an opening for the maneuvers he is capable of performing.

 

[M.L. Martin]

I know this won't cure the ills of the more immersion oriented among us, but I tend to see Daily and Encounter Powers as a form of narrative control being handed to the players. It's not that a given character is literally incapable of performing the actions represented by the Powers more often than the limitations in the rules allow, its that they don't. It's just not appropriate for cinematic or narratively appropriate for a character to continually perform these daring feats.

In the rogue's case I'd say that their special abilities require specific openings in their opponents' defenses which don't come along that often. Rather than having the DM detail these openings and have the rogue's player react to them, we instead give the player of the rogue a limited amount of narrative power to determine when his opponents leave him with an opening for the maneuvers he is capable of performing.

Please get out of my head.

 

[Hjorimir]

I find it funny that there are players who would balk at the "realism" of AW/PE/PD abilities in 4e while at the same time accepting Hit Points, Armor Class, and Falling Damage as presented in 3e.

 

[Lizard]

In the rogue's case I'd say that their special abilities require specific openings in their opponents' defenses which don't come along that often. Rather than having the DM detail these openings and have the rogue's player react to them, we instead give the player of the rogue a limited amount of narrative power to determine when his opponents leave him with an opening for the maneuvers he is capable of performing.

This is a pretty good explanation. And the opportunities for per-day powers just happen a lot less often...

 

[shilsen]

I know this won't cure the ills of the more immersion oriented among us, but I tend to see Daily and Encounter Powers as a form of narrative control being handed to the players. It's not that a given character is literally incapable of performing the actions represented by the Powers more often than the limitations in the rules allow, its that they don't. It's just not appropriate for cinematic or narratively appropriate for a character to continually perform these daring feats.

In the rogue's case I'd say that their special abilities require specific openings in their opponents' defenses which don't come along that often. Rather than having the DM detail these openings and have the rogue's player react to them, we instead give the player of the rogue a limited amount of narrative power to determine when his opponents leave him with an opening for the maneuvers he is capable of performing.

Beautiful

I find it funny that there are players who would balk at the "realism" of AW/PE/PD abilities in 4e while at the same time accepting Hit Points, Armor Class, and Falling Damage as presented in 3e.

I've always found this very amusing. One of the things ENWorld has shown me is that different people have completely different things which affect their sense of "realism", and that if you look hard enough, essentially all of them have completely unrealistic things which fail to bother them while some do.

 

[Sir Brennen]

Yep, I think Campbell's and Mustrum_Ridcully's takes are the best way to look at limited use powers. Thanks guys.

 

[Professor Phobos]

Except that wouldn't be a problem, but would in fact be awesome. Awesome verging on METAL.

I'm not saying it is a problem!

I am saying no one should complain their dog cannot shoot laser beams from its eyes, because that is not part of the "dog package", it wasn't what Canines of the Coast intended from their "dog" model.

I am saying that whenever one these previews shows up, people say "Ugh! That is so broken! I want the game to do X!" and then someone says "Well just make this change and it does X" and then someone says "Why should I fix this broken game! HATE! HATE! HATE!"

I am saying that there is a difference between:

1. It does not perform its intended function.
2. It does not perform the function I desire.

A game system is broken when the rules don't even produce the result the game designers wanted out of the rules, or there are glaring omissions, etc.

A game system that has to be house-ruled to fit the particular tastes of a specific individual or group is not broken. You are not "fixing" the game with this sort of house rule. You are customizing it.

A better counter-argument is the level of customization becomes so great as to make it not worth your time. That's fine. But people keep complaining that their dog can't breathe fire and it is making me crazy.

I just wish the naysayers didn't get so damn hostile over customization suggestions.

 

[HP Dreadnought]

Just an observation. . .

Looks like the 1st level hit points are 2 1/2x the per level hit points.

So if we say a fighter gets between 8 and 10 hit points per level, they will have between 20 and 25 HP plus Con score at 1st level. That's a lot of HPs for a 1st level character. . . as promised.


A couple other things. . .

The smaller proficiency list implies to me that the weapons list as a whole has been slimmed down. Good thing IMO. I don't know that we REALLY needed two different sets of stats for a one-handed mace for example.

It also presents the possibility that one of the advantages of being a fighter is a much broader weapon proficiency list than you get with other classes. . . that could include significantly more proficiences than Paladins, Rangers, and Barbarians.

Anything that helps out the fighters is a good thing IMO if we are to avoid the pitfalls of the fighter class in 3.x and previous editions.

Damage definitely has been reined in. The 350HP on the pit fiend looks like a LOT more now. . . plus its melee damage and 15 auto damage/round isn't looking too shabby.