Ampersand: The Bard (merged)

[Rechan]

It occurs to me that, with the Bard being the masta of multi-classing, this opens the path to those things that qualify as multi-classing:

Spell-scarred from Forgotten Realms.
Bola, Whip and Net fighting from the Gladiatorial article.

 

[Baumi]

It occurs to me that, with the Bard being the masta of multi-classing, this opens the path to those things that qualify as multi-classing:

Spell-scarred from Forgotten Realms.
Bola, Whip and Net fighting from the Gladiatorial article.

I'm not sure about the Weapon-Multiclassing since they require you to be a martial class. You might meet the requirementsl if you multiclass to a martial class first, but I'm not sure if this really works. Anyway a Whip swinging Bard would be cool and I don't think this would unbalance him.

Huh? I thought the consensus was that leaders weren't allowed to use healing powers during rests. I've seen so many DMs nerf that, I thought that was pretty much the rule.

As I said before, Healing Powers are explicitly mentioned in the PHB Short-Rest Section (Page 263) and I see no reason why they shouldn't be able to use their prayers/speeches out of combat. Also you still have to use Healing Surges and it cost a bit more time.

 

[Xris Robin]

The problem with using healing powers during a rest is they can only be used, what, once (or twice maybe) every five minutes? So you have to take several short rests. And then the power is used up, so you have to rest AGAIN to recharge your healing power. You could be talking about 4 or 5 short rests, and like 20 minutes of nonaction for the characters.

And that's assuming everyone needs like, 1 Healing Word. If say, everyone needed to spend 2 surges to hit full HP, and it's a 5 person party, and you only healed with Healing Word, it'd be something like 10 or 11 short rests, for 50 minutes.

 

[Henry]

I like it. And I like it better then the barbarian.

Mechanically it may be a little bit warlord, a little bit wizard, a little bit cleric, and a tiny bit rogue, but really feels like its own thing.

My players had the "who has to be the leader" problem when making there charecters...this would have solved that.

Channelling Donnie & Marie for a minute...
Oh, I'm a little bit cleric
and I'm a little bit wizard/rogue


One thing I'm liking is the weird "ally's mark" thing going on. Really neat to give someone mark ability who wouldn't normally get it, and then switch it around when someone else is more advantageous to get it. It's also not more complicated than marking is right now.

 

[Kobold Avenger]

I generally think of a bard as having dex over con, but then it's easier for them to multiclass and I'd probably pick rogue even if there's little in the way of ability score synergy right now, though sneak attack 1/encounter is useful and you're free to multiclass as a Sorcerer or Paladin or whatever after that.

So we have cunning for intelligence and valor for constitution. At least I have a better idea on what Arcane Power will have for the Bard. I hope that book will have a "virtue of grace".

 

[Verys Arkon]

....

My biggest problem with the class is that it doesn't feel like a bard to me. It feels like a buffing, healing warlock. A bard, in my mind, should be playing an instrument in the fight, and not really doing damage. Their overall contribution to success should be minimal. Basically, Bards really shouldn't be played by anyone who doesn't want to be a dingleberry, like Elan.

Which is why the 3.5 Bard was, generally speaking, the least played core class. I've often wanted to play the bard-type character, but just couldn't get over how 'sucktastic' they were.

The 4e bard is a much needed improvement. No one that I saw liked spending their turn singing round after round. YMMV of course. Perhaps when we see the full selection of powers there will be enough non-damaging ones to choose from to capture the 3.5 style, for those that find it attractive.

 

[The Little Raven]

I generally think of a bard as having dex over con

Having spent years of my youth involved in musical performance, I'd say that Constitution is pretty dead-on for a bard character, since it takes a lot of stamina to play or sing for an extended period of time.

 

[Larrin]

Which is why the 3.5 Bard was, generally speaking, the least played core class. I've often wanted to play the bard-type character, but just couldn't get over how 'sucktastic' they were.

Even worse than the 'sucktastic' nature of your basic bard was the fact that you could make a very powerful bard in two ways:

1) extremely high Diplomacy and convert all enemies into devout worshipers
2) a ridiculous combination of 2-3 prestige classes and 4-7 feats, each one from a different splat book which gave you +34d6 fire/holy damage and 35 attacks, and an aura that cured cancer.

thus if you wanted a 'good' bard you had to exploit a horrible loophole in the rules OR fiddle with a complicated mash of 10 different abilites synergizing to super-buff yourself (or party) to stupifying levels.

So you could go natural and suck or be awesome, but you had to die alot inside before you could stomach it.

Anyway, i like what i hear.

 

[Rechan]

It pleases me that the Bard is turning into the magical Warlord. Considering that the Warlord stole the thunder from the notion of the Bard (the support/buffer character).

Especially with the Bard getting some illusion-related powers.

 

[Rechan]

I'm not sure about the Weapon-Multiclassing since they require you to be a martial class. You might meet the requirementsl if you multiclass to a martial class first, but I'm not sure if this really works. Anyway a Whip swinging Bard would be cool and I don't think this would unbalance him.

I find that sad.

And yes, I tried to play a whip-using, tripping bard in 3.5.

I do find it disappointing that it's a challenge when it comes to multi-classing the bard. There are only so many classes that are viable due to the ability stats overlap, as I mentioned earlier.

A rogue/bard, for instance, is appropriate from a thematic perspective, but you're split 3 ways with regards to stats. Do they sacrifice Int for Cha and Dex? Etc.