Ampersand: The Bard (merged)

[RefinedBean]

IME, 3.x bardic knowledge either morphed into a gimped version of the standard Knowledge skill check or was just used as substitute for them.

You're probably right, there. Also, since the Bard is a multiclassing fiend, he'll be picking up skill proficiencies like no-one's business anyway.

Still, in my game, the Bard will be the one identifying items during rests.

 

[occam]

I didn't see any sort of Bardic Knowledge, which was my (only) favorite part of the Bard in 3.x

It's in there, just somewhat subtly. First, they have all the knowledge skills in their skill list. Second, they get a +1 bonus to all untrained skills, which means they'll have a better chance of making knowledge checks (among others) in which they don't have specific training. To the extent that bardic knowledge is covered by knowledge skills, there you go.

 

[RefinedBean]

Quick question: A bard can cause a mark on an enemy, originating from an ally.

So:

1. The Fighter gets all his Combat Advantage goodness due to this mark, if applicable (i.e. enemy is adjacent)
2. The Paladin doesn't get his Divine Challenge goodness, because that's its own at-will centered around the marking mechanism.
3. The Swordmage can activate his Aegis sweetness, because those are powers that are activated AFTER a marked enemy triggers the Aegis?

Fighters and Swordmages are going to love this guy.

 

[Rechan]

Quick question: A bard can cause a mark on an enemy, originating from an ally.

So:

1. The Fighter gets all his Combat Advantage goodness due to this mark, if applicable (i.e. enemy is adjacent)
2. The Paladin doesn't get his Divine Challenge goodness, because that's its own at-will centered around the marking mechanism.
3. The Swordmage can activate his Aegis sweetness, because those are powers that are activated AFTER a marked enemy triggers the Aegis?

I don't think that's the case.

If that was the case, I think it would've specified about class-specific marks. Remember, various monsters Mark targets, and it's just called "Target is marked". Mark is -2 to hit anyone but the marking creature.

So my feeling is that it's a vanilla mark, not a class-specific feature.

 

[Cadfan]

Rechan- The Fighter's mark "free attack" benefit is compatible with the Bard. The rest of them are not.

The Fighter's mark is compatible with the Bard's powers because the Fighter's special benefits versus marked foes aren't part of a specific power that grants benefits against foes marked by that specific power. The Fighter's benefits against his opponents apply to anyone the Fighter marks. The Bard's powers can make the Fighter mark someone. Therefore, the Fighter can get his free attack against that foe.

 

[Badwe]

Quick question: A bard can cause a mark on an enemy, originating from an ally.

So:

1. The Fighter gets all his Combat Advantage goodness due to this mark, if applicable (i.e. enemy is adjacent)
2. The Paladin doesn't get his Divine Challenge goodness, because that's its own at-will centered around the marking mechanism.
3. The Swordmage can activate his Aegis sweetness, because those are powers that are activated AFTER a marked enemy triggers the Aegis?

Fighters and Swordmages are going to love this guy.

Hard to say if that's exactly how it will shake out. I definitely see where you're coming from because the part about damage for the paladin is specifically laid out in the ability, and not as a class feature. The main thing to focus on is that anything that keys off of "a creature you marked" for these classes will work when the bard causes a misdirected mark. Perhaps before the bard comes out there will be some errata to the paladin or misdirecting mark (and abilities like it) to clarify this.

 

[RefinedBean]

Ah, the Compendium has clued me in to the Swordmage's Aegis stuff. So, no benefit there.

Still, though, the Fighter sees a MAJOR benefit from those Bard powers.

Throwing out marks on the battlefield like they're candy...that definitely has a very controller-ish feel to it.

"You go here, you go here, look at what THAT guy's doing...ahhh, what a symphony!"

Christ, I love 4E.

 

[Cadfan]

I'm pretty sure that its very, very clear.

COMBAT CHALLENGE
In combat, it’s dangerous to ignore a fighter. Every time you attack an enemy, whether the attack hits or misses, you can choose to mark that target. The mark lasts until the end of your next turn. While a target is marked, it takes a –2 penalty to attack rolls if its attack doesn’t include you as a target. A creature can be subject to only one mark at a time. A new mark supersedes a mark that was already in place.

In addition, whenever an enemy marked by you is adjacent to you and shifts or makes an attack that does not include you, you can make a melee basic attack against that enemy as an immediate interrupt.

The last line doesn't care how the mark came about. It just requires that the foe be marked "by you."

Hit: 1d8 + Charisma modifier damage, and the target is marked by an ally within 5 squares of you until the end of your next turn.

This makes the target marked "by an ally." If that ally is you, and you are a Fighter, you get the benefits of the last line of Combat Challenge.

 

[Xris Robin]

I am now looking forward to a Bard/Warlock/Wizard multiclass. Charisma primary, Con/Int secondary, using wands.

I do wonder, though, how the Bard interacts with Paragon multiclassing. I'd assume you just pick one class to use. I also wonder if the Bard might get any sort of special Paragon Path to go with mutliclassing, sorta like a Paragon version of Eternal Seeker.

 

[RefinedBean]

Hideous Laughter has a line in the power called Aftereffect. Never seen that before...could it be a condition that begins on the creature's next turn?