An Auto-bow and an exotic Polearm

[Machiavelli]

This thread exists in the interests of not hijacking Asmor's thread, providing a picture of my own multi-shot bow as per Jeraldo's request, and leaving room to even include another weapon.

J, here's my crossbow:

It's incomplete, obviously. I drew much of the design by hand, and needed AutoCAD just to get the dimensions and proportions figured out. Once I had a solid picture in my head, I didn't need to finish. Most of what's left to draw are the spring-loaded bolt magazine and the ratcheted firing mechanism. I'll do those by hand and scan them (or with my graphics pad, but my drawing software is dodgy) if there's enough interest.

Here's how the dang thing works, and a description of the picture:[sblock]The green lines are the block-and-tackle setups, guide pullies, and rope. The stock, crosspiece, and other structural items are in black. The side view is at the top of the picture. The crosspiece draws back about at far as you'd expect it to, but that draw gets amplified to 8 times the length of rope, by virtue of the block and tackle. All of that rope gets taken up by a ratched winch assembly in the center after running its course through the weapon's pullies and firing groove. The firing groove is just a heavily polished and greased channel through which the two draw ropes pass on their way from the winch to the drawing blocks. The bolts get wedged between the ropes, and their dull teeth engage the ridges that are naturally in the twisted ropes. When the ratchet releases the winch 1.5 feet, the bolt wedged in the ropes is drawn forward to fire from the weapon.
As the firing lever on the bottom is depressed (think of the lever on a lever-action rifle circa 1890), one pawl lifts and another engages. This mechanism works much like the ratchet and double pawl on the pendulum of a wind-up grandfather clock. The lever also works a second double pawl on the ratcheted bolt loader. A spring pushes the entire stack of 8 bolts downward. The bolts are in a curved magazine that rises from the top of the crossbow. Extending the firing lever between shots allows the magazine to advance and jam another bolt into the firing groove. [/sblock]Voila! A semi-automatic crossbow! Also a real pain to reload. Here are the stats, reposted from the other thread:

Exotic Ranged Weapon

Gnome Heavy Auto-bow   750gp   1d6(s)   1d8(m)   19-20/x2    80ft    16lb    Piercing
  Auto-bolts (8)        16gp     -         -         -         -      2lb      -

Loading the Gnome heavy auto-bow takes 2 full minutes, provoking attacks of opportunity every round, and cannot be performed by a non-proficient wielder. A loaded auto-bow may be carried without danger of accidental firing, but for at least 8 consecutive hours every day the bow must be unloaded, to prevent warping of the crosspiece. A warped auto-bow deals 1 hit die lower damage (1d8 becomes 1d6, etc.) and its range decreases by 20ft. Firing the Gnome heavy auto-bow is no more complicated then firing a standard heavy crossbow, so it can be fired without penalty by a wielder proficient with simple weapons. However, a proficient wielder may choose to fire up to 4 bolts per attack, applying damage for each bolt and suffering a -1 cumulative penalty to the attack roll for each additional bolt fired, up to -3 for four bolts. Only specialized auto-bolts may be used, which may not be available in most armories..​

-~-

And here's the Algristok, an exotic polearm that works as a double weapon:

The way I have it drawn right now, it's HUGE! Total length about 8’9.5”, with a 4’9.75” falchion blade and 1’10.5” axe head.

Exotic Two-Hand Melee Weapon

Algristok   175gp   1d6/1d6(s)   2d4/1d8(m)   18-20x2/x3     -      15lb    Slashing

The algristok is a double weapon with reach. When using it as a double weapon, the player takes penalties equal to if she were using a one-handed weapon in her off hand. She can attack targets up to 10 ft away, but unlike most reach weapons, she can also attack adjacent foes. When attacking an adjacent foe she uses the falchion blade of the algristok, and when attacking a non-adjacent foe she uses the axe head. Even a proficient wielder takes an extra –4 penalty to attacks with the falchion blade, because the axe head and bowed haft interfere with a standard falchion swing. Taking ranks in the Algristock weapon skill reduces this penalty by 1 for each rank.​

I wanted to steal a bit of glory from that damnable spiked chain everyone seems to use. Yes, swinging a spiked chain is really cool, but part of the appeal of using an exotic weapon is uniqueness. I do believe, if I've interpreted the Whirlwind feat correctly, that this weapon could do everything the spiked chain can during a whirlwind attack. That was my real goal: provide competition against the chain for the title Exotic Weapon Whirlwind King.

Edit: I went with the weapon skill because it feels like the right flavor. Of course now the whole thing feels like a somewhat less attractive choice than the spiked chain, so I've whipped up a Weapon Style feat for it; see below.

 

[DanMcS]

And here's the Algristok, an exotic polearm that works as a double weapon:

The way I have it drawn right now, it's HUGE! Total length about 8’9.5”, with a 4’9.75” falchion blade and 1’10.5” axe head.

Exotic Two-Hand Melee Weapon

Algristok   175gp   1d6/1d6(s)   2d4/1d8(m)   18-20x2/x3     -      15lb    Slashing

The algristok is a double weapon with reach. When using it as a double weapon, the player takes penalties equal to if she were using a light weapon in her off hand. She can attack targets up to 10 ft away, but unlike most reach weapons, she can also attack adjacent foes. When attacking adjacent foes she uses only the falchion blade of the algristok, and when attacking non-adjacent foes she uses only the axe head. Even a proficient wielder takes a –4 penalty to attacks with the falchion blade, because the axe head and bowed haft interfere with a standard falchion swing. Taking the feat Weapon Focus: Algristock eliminates this penalty, in addition to the feat’s usual benefits.​

I wanted to steal a bit of glory from that damnable spiked chain everyone seems to use. Yes, swinging a spiked chain is really cool, but part of the appeal of using an exotic weapon is uniqueness. I do believe, if I've interpreted the Whirlwind feat correctly, that this weapon could do everything the spiked chain can during a whirlwind attack. That was my real goal: provide competition against the chain for the title Exotic Weapon Whirlwind King. Taking Weapon Focus: Algristok somewhat takes away from that whirlwind feat progression, but I felt something needed to address the unwieldy nature of the braced falchion blade.

Reducing the spiked chain to 1d6 damage does some good for that.

Regarding this weapon: it's better in almost every way than the double sword or double axe. It has a better threat range and it has improved reach. It has a non-penalty to-hit "penalty": what character is going to use one of these without also getting weapon focus? This is a weapon you build your character around from level 1. That -4 will never be a hindrance in play.

This weapon is large and unwieldy. Probably it shouldn't be a double weapon, but a "heavy double weapon", that counts as a one-handed weapon in your off hand rather than a light weapon. That would make the dual wielding penalty -4/-4 instead of -2/-2. No other double weapon is constructed using a two-handed weapon as one of its heads, they're all made from two one-handed weapons.

 

[Machiavelli]

Good call regarding the "heavy double weapon", DanMc. It's been edited.
I still somewhat want to have a falchion-only penalty, so I'll keep what I have already, but I'm looking to make it more substantial. In the original post I added the suggestion for using ranks in an "Algristok" skill to eliminate the -4 penalty. Otherwise I'd go with Weapon Specialization instead of Weapon Focus, and a -2 penalty instead of -4. That idea, however, pretty much locks the weapon into the fighter class, and I'd like rangers to be able to reasonably use it.

 

[Machiavelli]

[SIZE=+1]W[/SIZE]HIRLING [SIZE=+1]B[/SIZE]LADE AND [SIZE=+1]W[/SIZE]EDGE [STYLE]

You have mastered the deadly, flowing art of wielding an algristok in constant motion. The momentum of your weapon carries you through an efficient series of combat maneuvers.
Prerequisites: STR 15, Dodge, Mobility, Two-Weapon Fighting, Two-Weapon Defense, Weapon Focus: Algristok, base attack bonus +6.
Benefit: When you make a full attack with your algristok, you may choose to reverse the order of your base attack bonuses. For example, instead of a +12/+7/+2 base attack bonus regression, you would attack at a +2/+7/+12 progression. You may choose to automatically miss any of your attacks, and then immediately after the missed attack you must take one additional 5-foot step beyond the one you are normally limited to. These 5-foot steps do not provoke attacks of opportunity. You must still roll the attacks you choose to miss, and on a natural 1 you hit the target anyway and apply damage as normal, but with no opportunity for a critical hit.​

Alright, what do you think? I don't recall ever seeing a feat that lets someone reverse his base attack bonus sequence, so I'm wary about this, but I don't specifically see a problem with it.

 

[El Jeraldo]

Good idea to make a new thread.

Thank you very much for the picture and the secondary explanation of the firing mechanism I think I finally get it, and love every minuet of it. My idea is to take this design and place them as manual sentry guns on a keep or fortress of some kind that would allow for more rope to be used and thus a larger clip. It gives the contraption a slightly more practical use, as opposed to carrying it around everywhere.

The Algristok is also an interesting creation and well thought out, but I am a little confused by the special feat that you can take. I don't really understand what the benefit or purpose of reversing the BAB progression is while making a full attack action. I guess my question is, what is this simulating in reality?

Also I am confused about the gaining of additional 5ft steps when you miss with the weapon on full attack actions. Once again I'm not quite certain of the purpose of gaining these extra 5ft steps and what they are attempting to simulate in a battle? I also would like you to bear in mind that the rules laid down by the PHB state that you may only take one 5ft step per round, the ability to make more than one can be exploited in extreme manners to break game physics. I did it once to over power my character in a fight and travel long distances in a single round.

Any way I love the gnomish crossbow and will certainly use it.

-El Jeraldo

 

[Machiavelli]

The idea of taking a step on a miss is to reposition yourself in battle while still making your full attack action. The idea of reversing the BAB sequence while making these steps is to allow your first few attacks to most likely miss, using the follow-through step to get you into a flank position before your most effective blows start to land. It's like bluffing with some ineffective attacks first to give you the few seconds you need to get in position for the killer blow.

Since you have to MISS in order to step 5 feet further, you're not gaining any advantage that tumbling 5 feet would not grant you - and tumbling 5 feet is usually just a waste. It doesn't allow you to retreat very far, because the best you could do is 10 feet from the original foe, unless you switch to attacking a second foe. And remember, all of this movement happens when you FAIL to do any damage. It's a fall-back tactic, a plan B.

The intent is to be a stylistic, but still somewhat useful and tactical feat. You could use combat expertise to keep your AC high, then dance around an enemy when your blows don't land. You could use maximum power attack, with the first few blows whiffing as expected, then the last blow connecting in a flank position to REALLY mess your opponent up.

My real concern is that the feat is actually underpowered, not overpowered, in its current form. Either way, the feat is likely mechanically ill-concieved, but I love the idea of a weapon style that uses the weapon's momentum to the wielder's advantage, and does so in an unusual way befitting the unusual weapon.

-~-

Jeraldo, I'm glad you like the auto-bow. Stationary mounted versions would have the luxury of huge block-and-tackle systems and incredibly powerful cross pieces, yes, which would allow for more shots to be fired and heavier bolts to be used, respectively. I could imagine a 12-shot stationary version, with a replacable "magazine" and winch for rapid reloads, that could fire a 1d10 blot at a 100' range increment. It would be huge, but not too large for someone to swivel on a mount and aim accurately.

 

[Machiavelli]

Any other opinions about the weapon style feat? About the algristok's basics? About the auto-bow?

I'm still not certain I like the mechanics of the weapon style feat, but I haven't had any genius ideas to replace or improve it. Any help?

 

[El Jeraldo]

Okay, that is interesting I had never thought about the steps on misses as being cased my the momentum of the weapon, that is actually really cool; it adds a level of realism to playing with it. I have an idea for the weapon and the feat but I'm afraid it may make the weapon even more underpowered than it already is. My idea is this, lets say that on a full attack made with the algristok still has you move 5 ft with every miss but one of two things happen: one (without weapon style feat), the momentum form your miss only can carry you forward where you can chose to end your attack round or continue to try and attack assuming you have more attacks to make, if moving in this way would move you into the opponents square then it is assumed that since you missed he stepped out of the way and you move through their square to the other side, if their size occupies only on square, if it is more than one then you are deflected to the side and in both cases your attack round ends; or two (with weapon style feat), you are able to control you unwieldy weapon with the utmost training and are able to control the direction of the momentum and can move in the direction of your choice on a miss and are able to reverse the BAB progression. This makes it so the weapon style feat mean the wielder ahs logical training above any other wielder. Also I believe that movement in this way should provoke attacks of opportunity if you are to enter threat range by doing this, but if you have the weapon style feat your control is far superior of those with out it so much that your opponent is not allowed an attack of opportunity on you if you enter or exit their threat range by moving in this way.

These are my ideas. I hope they are helpful and not to under powering. Yet under powering or not I believe more in character development than actual character power and ability, and I think modifying the feat like this would provide you with that added customization/awesomeness.

-El Jeraldo