An idea for a broken Fighter class

[Li Shenron]

Would it be a lesser improvement if the campaigned was powered-up for every class by getting a feat every 2 levels instead of 3? If character feats were given at 1st, 3rd, 5th, 7th, 9th, 11th, 13th, 15th, 17th and 19th, that would be 3 feats more than normal, and is would lessen the value of Figther bonus feats...

 

[Khaalis]

Fighter Improvement

What we did to make the Fighter an attractive long term class rather than a mere 2 level multiclass option was to increase the Feats gained at higher levels, and add a defense bonus mechanic. Also note that we have a mechanic in place to allow Fighters to be either an Armored or an Unarmored Style Fighter.

Bonus Feats:
Gained at 1,2,4,6,8,10 as normal then increasing to +1 Bonus Feat every level accept 15th. (Thats an extra 4 feats.)

Defense Bonuses (Ex):
These defense bonuses have a few different effects based on Fighter level. There are two types of Defense Bonus; Armored Defense and Tactical Defense. These abilities are designed to make the Fighter the unparalleled champion of melee defensive capability as well as making high levels of Fighter attractive again versus Multiclassing into other more attractive options.

Armored Defense:
Fighters that train in the use of armor gain an increased defense bonus from in depth combat knowledge and from learning to be comfortable in their armor, almost like the armor becomes a second skin to the Fighter. This allows a Fighter to improve in the use of armor, but slower than through specializing with a feat or series of feats.

[u]Level	Bonuses[/u]
1-2	No bonus gained
3-4	+1 Max. Dex. Rating on Armor, -1 Armor Check Penalty
5-10	+2 Max. Dex. Rating on Armor, -3 Armor Check Penalty
11-15	+3 Max. Dex. Rating on Armor, -5 Armor Check Penalty
16-20	+4 Max. Dex. Rating on Armor, -7 Armor Check Penalty

Tactical Defense:
Fighters learn over time how to hone their defensive abilities and combat sense far better than any other class when in direct armed toe-to-toe melee. These tactical defensive abilities and combat sense are a combination of nimbleness, luck, reaction, skill, practice and most importantly experience. This defense bonus is a Competence bonus to AC that stacks with all other bonuses. The defense bonus is also effective against touch attacks or ranged touch attacks, but is lost any time the Fighter would be denied their Dexterity bonus such as when flat footed or when immobilized. The defense bonus is also penalized by the current Armor Check Penalty rating of the armor the Fighter is wearing.

[u]Level	Bonuses[/u]
1-3	No bonus gained	
4-6	+1 Competence bonus to AC
7-9	+3 Competence bonus to AC
10-12	+5 Competence bonus to AC
13-15	+7 Competence bonus to AC
16-18	+9 Competence bonus to AC
19-20	+11 Competence bonus to AC

[Example: An 8th level Fighter wearing Chainmail armor would have an AC bonus of +5 from the armor with a Maximum Dexterity bonus of +4, and an Armor Check Penalty of -2, as well as a Defense Bonus of +3. At 15th level this would change to a Maximum Dexterity Bonus of +5, an Armor Check Penalty of 0, and a Defense Bonus of +7.]


Side Note

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Fighters are proficient in all simple and martial weapons and are also proficient in light, medium, heavy and exotic armors and with all shields (including Tower shields). Fighters as a boon over all other melee warrior classes also begin with one exotic weapon proficiency of choice.

Unarmored Fighter Alternative:For a Fighter wishing to create a true unarmored style Fighter, the Fighter may forgo the four armor proficiency feats that are normally free to a Fighter and instead gain the Unarmored Defense feat instead (Swashbuckling Adventures). At 1st level the Fighter gains Unarmored Defense Beginner which improves to Unarmored Defense Intermediate at 4th level in Fighter and further improves to Unarmored Defense Master at 8th level in Fighter. The bonus granted by these feats is temporarily lost whenever the Fighter gains an Armor bonus from any source.

Unshielded Fighter Alternative: The Fighter wishing to forgo shields to specialize purely in weapon use may forgo both the Normal and Tower Shield proficiencies in exchange for gaining Weapon Focus in a single weapon at 1st Level and Weapon Specialization in the same weapon at 4th Level. The bonuses granted from these feats are temporarily lost any time the Fighter receives a Shield bonus from any source.

 

[Valiantheart]

I like the idea of simply using better feats for now. Fighters are limited mostly by the lack of good medium and high level feats. You could even poach some of the warmain's abilities like Armor specialization from AU as a feat. The current weapon focus/specialization seems to be on a +8 BAB expansion rate i.e. +1 focus/+8 Greater Focus +4 Specialization/+12 Greater Specializtion. With that logic i dont see anything that would/should prevent the creation of supreme weapon focus at BAB +16 and Supreme Specialization at BAB 20.

 

[Li Shenron]

With that logic i dont see anything that would/should prevent the creation of supreme weapon focus at BAB +16 and Supreme Specialization at BAB 20.

Want to bet if this will be in the upcoming Complete Warrior?

 

[totoro]

Would it be a lesser improvement if the campaigned was powered-up for every class by getting a feat every 2 levels instead of 3? If character feats were given at 1st, 3rd, 5th, 7th, 9th, 11th, 13th, 15th, 17th and 19th, that would be 3 feats more than normal, and is would lessen the value of Figther bonus feats...

I suggest you revamp all of the classes so that you get a feat at every level and no special abilities. I did that and it works great (no levels where you get no feats and no levels where you get two). I suggest that at odd levels you have to take a class feat and even levels you can take a class feat or a general feat. Plus you get a character feat at 1st level.

Wizards more than double their class feats with the rule, but they have to take Familiar and Scribe Scroll as class feats. Since they get twice as many, Wizards need to have their metamagic and item creation feats cut in half (e.g., the first time you take Extend Spell, it only applies to one school of magic and the second time it applies to all schools--so it takes 2 feats to get the full benefit of a metamagic feat). My suggestion for item creation feats is to break them up by spell level. For example, Scribe Scroll works for spell levels 1-9; Invest Spell (aka Craft Wand) works for spell levels 1-4 and Improved Invest Spell for levels 5-9 (I made the investment of multiple powers, as in a staff, require another feat: Invest Multiple Powers); Brew Lesser Potion works for spell levels 1-3, Brew Medium Potion for spell levels 4-6, and Brew Greater Potion for spell levels 7-9; Enhance Item provides an enhancement bonus to armor or weapon of +1 (may take the feat up to 5 times for +5 enhancement bonus); and Craft Magic Item allows you to create an item that has a 1st level spell power or its equivalent (same as a combination of Craft Rod, Forge Ring, Craft Arms/Armor (excluding enhancement), Craft Wondrous Item, but only for 1st level spells or equivalent). You can take Craft Magic Item up to 9 times to enable crafting or magic items up to 9th spell level-equivalent in power. These suggestions make Wizards relatively better at making scrolls, potions, and wands, but relatively worse at crafting permanent magic items (except for low level magic items, at which they are superior). I like.

Rogues would have the following class feats: Sneak Attack, Trapfinding, Evasion, Uncanny Dodge, Improved Unanny Dodge, all of their special abilities, and Skill Focus. I would make them take another class feat to use sneak attack more than once per round (Rapid Sneak Attack). And I might throw in a couple more feats from the general list, such as Quick Draw. I imagine just about all Rogues would take Sneak Attack by 5th level, but you wouldn't have to.

I merged Clerics and Sorcerers with Wizards, which you probably don't want to do. So, instead, I suggest that Clerics and Sorcerers don't get any class feats, so they can't take any feats on odd levels. Alternatively, divide domains into 5 chunks and let a cleric take one of the chunks as a class feat (e.g., Domain I grants the feat of a domain and allows casting of 1st level domain spells, Domains II-V grant ability to cast domain spells of 2 spell levels higher). Even better, make the spell turning and spontaneous cure abilities into domain feats, but break each domain into 4 chunks.

I made Bards, Druids, Paladins, Rangers, and Monks prestige classes, but you can translate their abilities into class feats if you didn't want to do anything so drastic.

BTW, I added new core classes Champion, Swashbuckler, Marksman, and Sage, to fill the void left by the core classes that merged or departed for Prestige status. No need to go into detail since you aren't interested (I'm guessing).

 

[Rackhir]

As far as I am concerned the "Interesting" high level Fighter feats/skills/abilities are called prestige classes. What you are talking about doing is essentially folding various prestige class abilities back into the fighter so you don't have to take a prestige class.

Why is there something wrong with going the prestige class route after X number of levels? They focus on various aspects and areas of combat and weapon usage. Exactly what you seem to be trying to enhance the fighter class to do.

If you'll forgive the "pun" there's nothing magical about the core classes. There is no reason (past some people's rabid hatred of PrCs) that the core classes have to be the be all and end all of what ever it is they do.

I do think it would be a good idea though to offer more in the way of high level feats and feat chains though. You really do start running out of interesting ones to take around 12-15th lv.

 

[A'koss]

Li, I thought you might be interested in borrowing ideas from one of the "flexi-classes" (as I like to call them) that I'm in the middle of tweaking for my low-magic game. The Warrior essentially replaces the Fighter, Barbarian, Ranger, and to a lesser extent, the Monk allowing the player much more freedom in designing a certain style of fighter.

Feel free to use whatever nuggets you like...


The Warrior

BASE HD: d10
- Hit Dice can be modified with Class Abilities

SKILL POINTS: 1st Level: (3 + Int) x 4, every level after: 3 + Int
- These represent the usual 3e skills in D&D.
- In Namea there are no cross-class skills, all skills are available to all classes.

WEAPON & ARMOR SKILL POINTS: 5 + 1 every odd level...
- Warriors use these points to acquire proficiency in weapons and armor.
- To become proficient in the use of a weapon or armor requires 1 SP except exotic weapons and armor (for that culture) which require 2 SP to become proficient in. You may also choose to become proficient in groups of related weapons as follows:

- All swords: 4
- All axes: 3
- All hammers: 3 (including your maul & clubs)
- All maces: 2 (including flails)
- All polearms: 3
- All Bows: 2

- All Light Armor: 2
- All Medium Armor: 3
- All Heavy Armor: 4
- All Armor: 6

- Weapon Focus:
- Prerequisites: Proficiency in the weapon.
- Benefits: +1 Bonus to all Attack Rolls. If you are using standard 3e critical hits, you can advance no further.

- Improved Weapon Focus: (Campaign specific)
- Prerequisites: 6th Level, Weapon Focus in chosen weapon.
- Benefits: An additional +1 Bonus to all Attack Rolls (+2 total).

- Improved Critical:
- Prerequisites: 8th level.
- Benefits: Crit threat range is doubled.

- Weapon Specialization:
- Prerequisite: 3rd Level, Weapon Focus in chosen weapon.
- Benefits: Weapon Damage increases in the following manner: 1d3 = 1d4, 1d4 = 1d6, 1d6 = 1d8, 1d8 = 1d10, 1d10 = 1d12, 1d12 (or 2d6) = 1d8+1d6. If you are using standard 3e critical hits, you can advance no further. Ranged weapon damage is only increased within a range of 30'

- Armor Specialization: (Campaign specific)
- Prerequisite: 3rd Level, Proficiency in specific armor..
- Benefits: Armor's Max. Dex. bonus improves by 2 for light armor and by 1 for medium armor. Armor check penalties are reduced by 1 as well.

- Skill Point Substitution:
- Prerequisite: None
- Benefits: You may substitute a W&A SP for 3 Skill Points.

FEATS: 1 + 1 every even level.
- Warriors only gain feats at this rate, not at the 3e rate. Weapon & Armor Proficiencies along with Weapon Specialization are removed from the lists.

WARRIOR ABILITIES: 2 + 1 every 3rd level.
- These class abilities are much like feats but are restricted to the Warrior class.

- Each ability costs 1 slot unless otherwise noted.

- The list is still being revised but would not include paladin-like abilities or barbarian rage as both would be better suited to Prestige Classes IMO. Monk-like abilities are also exempt for the most part as they are more appropriate to an eastern setting and a different class.

- Fast Movement:
- Prerequisites: Dex. 12, Level 3.
- Benefits: Increase your Base Movement by 10. Every Additional Slot you spend adds 10' to your movement.

- Damage Reduction:
- Prerequisites: Con 12, Level 11.
- Benefits: You gain DR of 1/- for every slot you spend on it.

- Unarmed Combat:
- Prerequisites: Improved Unarmed Strike.
- Benefits: Your unarmed blows inflict 1d6 damage. Every 4 levels after acquiring this feat you may improve your unarmed damage by spending an additional slot on unarmed combat. Damage Progression is as follows 1d8, 1d10, 1d12, 1d20 (max.).

- Improved Hit Die:
- Prerequisites: None.
- Benefits: At a cost of *2* Class Ability Slots the Warrior may use the next higher die (d12) for acquiring Hit Points. You do not have to be 1st level in order to acquire this ability, it may be acquired at any time in a Warrior's career.

- Reduced Hit Die:
- Prerequisites: None.
- Benefits: The Warrior may reduce his Hit Die to the next lower die (d8) and *gain* 2 Class Ability Slots. It may not be reduced further.

- Reduced Combat Ability:
- Prerequisites: Levels 1 - 10.
- Benefits: The Warrior may reduce his combat progression to that of a cleric (average) and *gain* 2 Class Ability Slots if done between levels 1 - 5 or 1 Class Ability Slot if done between levels 6 - 10.

- Uncanny Dodge I:
- Prerequisites: Dex 12.
- Benefits: Retain Dex bonus to AC even when flat-footed or attacked by an invisible foe.

- Uncanny Dodge II:
- Prerequisites: Level 5, Dex 12, Uncanny Dodge I.
- Benefits: Can no longer be flanked unless attacked by a Rogue a minimum of 4 levels higher.

- Uncanny Dodge III:
- Prerequisites: Level 10, Dex 12, Uncanny Dodge II.
- Benefits: +1 bonus to Reflex Saves vs damage from traps and a +1 dodge bonus to AC vs attacks from traps. You may use another slot to improve these bonuses by 1 for every 3 levels after acquiring the feat to a max. of +4.

- Extreme Effort:
- Prerequisites: Str 12.
- Benefits: As a full-round action you gain a bonus of +2 vs any Str check or Str related skill check. You gain an additional bonus of +2 for every extra slot spent to a max. bonus of +6.

- Penetrate Hardness:
- Prerequisites: Str 12.
- Benefits: Ignore 1 point of an object's hardness and ignore 2 points of a creature's damage resistance. This ability is stackable with additional slots spent on it.

- Energy Resistance:
- Prerequisites: Con 12.
- Benefits: The character may resist an amount of a specific energy damage (acid, cold, electricity, fire or sonic) equal to his Con modifier. Additional slots can be spent on acquiring resistance to additional types of attack.

- Ignore Pain I:
- Prerequisites: Level 5, Con 12.
- Benefits: Continue to stay conscious even at negative hit points as though he was disabled (make an attack or a move action every round) until reaching -10 hit points and death.

- Ignore Pain II:
- Prerequisites: Level 9, Con 12, Ignore Pain I
- Benefits: The Warrior may add his Con modifier to extend his survivability at negative hit points. For example, a Warrior with an 18 Con can survive until -14 Hit Points. Between -1 and -9 hit points the Warrior may function unimpaired and can continue to fight without penalty but if the Warrior is injured between -10 and his max. threshold he is considered disabled.

- Tough as Iron:
- Prerequisites: Con 12.
- Benefits: Gain an additional 3 Hit Points. Stackable with additional slots spent on it.

- Lion's Stamina:
- Prerequisites: Con 12.
- Benfits: Recover Hit Points at twice the normal rate (non-magical recovery only).

- Steel Defense: (Campaign specific.)
- Prerequisites: Dex. 12, Int. 12
- Benefits: By spending *2* slots the Warrior's class-based Defense Bonus improves from Average to Good. The warrior must be in light to no armor and must be unencumbered.

- Favored Enemy:
- Prerequisites: Int. 12.
- Benefits: As per your favorite Ranger or Ranger variant. Additional benefits every 5 levels require an additional slot to acquire them.

- Increase Ability Score:
- Prerequisties: None.
- Benefits: Increase Str, Dex or Con by 1. Stackable. IMC, all ability score bonuses overlap, with the exception of temp. spell bonuses. But in a regular campaign, the DM is free to choose.

- Improved Saving Throws:
- Prerequisites: Ability Score of 12 in the Save modifier for the Saving Throw to be improved.
- Benefits: For a cost of *2* slots the Warrior may choose to improve either his Reflex or his Will save to the "Good" progression.

- Exploit Weakness:
- Prerequisites: Int 12.
- Benefits: After 1 round of combat the warrior can exploit the weaknesses in the battle tactics of all opponents that he has seen over the round. Invisible or otherwise concealed opponents cannot be exploited. He may then use his Int bonus instead of his Str or Dex towards his attack rolls against those opponents. (For those oddball warriors who's Int is their best score...

- Tactician:
- Prerequisites: Int 12, Level 3.
- Benefits: As an attack action, the Warrior provides tactical aid to any single ally (but not himself) within sight and voice range of the Warrior. As a full-round action, the Warrior can provide tactical aid to 2 + Int modifier allies. The aid provides either a competence bonus on attack rolls or a dodge bonus to AC (Warrior's choice). The bonus is equal to the Warrior's Int. modifier and it lasts for 1 full round.

- Battlefield Tactician:
- Prerequisites: Int 12, Tactician, Leadership feat.
- Benefits: As per Tactian, but the Warrior may provide tactical aid to 2 + Int modifier allies, followers and cohorts as a standard action and to every follower and cohort (in addition to 2 + Int modifier number of additional allies) as a full-round action.


- Tough Defense:
- Prerequisites: Con 12, Level 8
- Benefits: The Warrior may use his Con bonus instead of his Dex towards his Reflex Saves.

- Hard Will:
- Prerequisites: Con 12, Level 8
- Benefits: The Warrior may use his Con bonus instead of his Wis towards his Will Saves.


BAB: As per fighter.

SAVING THROWS: As per fighter.


Cheers,

A'koss.

 

[Remathilis]

Dragon 310 had some alternate fighter classes with some special skills, most of which could be made into fighter feats for the core fighter.

At higher levels, more "supernatural" abilities might come, such as strikes that inflict condititions (daze, slow, stunned) or even attacks that do ability damage.

Just some food for thought.

 

[I'm A Banana]

An easy way to solve the problem of no interest would be to develop more high-level feats that require a lot to get...I mean if one high-level feat required five other feats to achieve, Fighters pretty much are the only ones who get it. Especially if you link it with high BAB or a good fort save, or both...