D&D 4E An in depth rules discussion on the mechanical problems and breakthroughs of 4e

[VannATLC]

I never got bored, or really had to hold back, with my Warmage.

I had to multi-class my wizard to do anything meaningful.. at least until CA came out, and I started picking up the 4e-esque reserve feats.

 

[darkdragoon]

"Unique subsystems"= class features. Lay on Hands. Channel Divinity. Sneak Attack. Pact. Wizard's use of the spellbook.


There probably should have been at least one more at-will choice for each class.


I also would have liked some type of "Sudden Recovery" type feat to get one encounter (daily might be a bit much) power back in a pinch.

 

[mmu1]

Not like in 3E. The fighter says, I attack and that was the breadth of his ability. The cleric, was I buff, I buff I buff, I heal, heal, heal.... Every RPG & War game run on a treadmill. How many times do people play the same video game? Run the same course? Run the treadmill? It may be redundant but it the the whole experience that attracts them.

I was talking about the fact that even though your character improves, the enemy bonuses keep pace so "perfectly" you're actually standing still - not about characters using the same abilities over and over.

It looks like they've done such a good job, you could almost use a coin flip instead of a d20 as the standard resolution method.

People do put up with the same crap in computer games (in fact, in most MMOs people put up with their characters getting weaker as they level - monsters usually get relatively harder to kill and ever level takes longer than the previous one) but in my experience the reason people play MMORPGs and PnP ones are fundamentally different, and the rewards are as well. Or at least used to be...

 

[ExploderWizard]

A lot of my time as a wizard was spent NOT casting spells, and simply going "well, I guess this crossbow shot MIGHT hit on a 20....".

Considering that magic missile requires a roll to hit now there are not many differences. You can use INT to improve hit chance instead of DEX and do not have to track crossbow ammo, so thats something.

 

[Capn_Danger]

(Of course while this is a very good argument for Per Encounter Wizard spellcasting, MM all day is another argument)

Personally, I can't get over the new magic system. As long as play balance is accounted for, why shouldn't a wizard be able to be a wizard all day long?

Fighters never get tired of walking around in armor, swinging swords, carrying treasure, dodging traps and parrying blows all day long. If a fighter never runs out of stamina, why should a wizard?

I especially like the unlimited cantrips. So many fun roleplaying opportunities...

My only hope is that my wizard doesn't lack for spell selection. I did like being able to choose daily spells, especially when we knew we were facing specific challenges.

 

[Dragonblade]

Everything is not hunky dory though. Like everything in life this RPG it is not perfect. It has some flaws some more serious than others. Here is a list of system problems potential or otherwise.
1. Stat polarity- tough or strong, smart or quick, perceptive or social
2. A clear focus on STR, CON, DEX (feats, what each stat does in general)
3. Weapons- sizing for small creatures, damages for various weapons, weapon uniqueness
4. Streamlining all powers from all character types into one system (no excellent unique sub-systems)
5. Class imbalance (Ranger)
6. Non-Weapon attacks missing a "weapon training" bonus to hit
7. Endless magical at-will attacks, should a wizard be able to magic missile all day?

Discuss and add your concerns and affirmations.

1 and 2. Somewhat agree. I think the stat requirements for feats should probably be removed.
3. Not an issue
4. Disagree. I disliked having different sub systems for each class. I like 4e's approach.
5. I haven't found the ranger imbalanced really (with the possible exception of Blade Cascade). Though I think two-handed fighters are a bit underpowered.
6. Non-weapon attacks don't need a weapon training bonus. The defenses they target are already lower than AC to compensate.
7. This is a feature. Wizards should be able to magic missile all day. A wizard should never need to resort to mundane weapons. Ever.

 

[mmu1]

My only hope is that my wizard doesn't lack for spell selection. I did like being able to choose daily spells, especially when we knew we were facing specific challenges.

Depends on what your standards are, I guess - there's around 80 wizard spells in total, and most would have been Evocation effects in 3.5.

In fact, a huge number can be described by the following formula:

(X + intelligence modifier of type Y damage) plus (status effect Z) that lasts for (one round or until save ends)

You generally have 3-5 spells to choose from at the levels when you gain access to new ones.

 

[phil500]

Not sure what you mean by this. There is a slight problem with Twin Attack, that's not difficult to fix, is that what you're referring to? Or am I out of the loop on something else?

I think there is a ranger power that lets you swing until you miss. its not hard to set up a situation where the ranger only misses on a 1, and then the elven reroll ability can be used.

depeding on assumptions ive seen average damage numbers around 600

 

[Sadrik]

I especially like the unlimited cantrips. So many fun roleplaying opportunities...

My only hope is that my wizard doesn't lack for spell selection. I did like being able to choose daily spells, especially when we knew we were facing specific challenges.

I agree about the cantrips.

Unlimited magical attacks still don't sit right with me some how though. What if a wizard gets locked behind an adamantine door in a room with his party arms and armor taken away. He can spend the next 6,000 rounds to cast 6,000 magic missiles knocking down a wall to get everyone out?

 

[GoodKingJayIII]

This relates to the stat polarity issue and is something that I’ve been thinking about for a while. With ‘point buy’, racial stat bonuses and powers being closely tied to individual stats, every character is created to fit his niche (role, class, build) perfectly. This is excellent for game balance but poor in terms of character variety. It seems that we’ll no longer see ‘off-type’ characters (e.g. tough wizards that can wield a blade and don’t mind going toe-to-toe once in a while. Or lightly armored, dual-wielding Halfling fighters) since every character who is not built optimally for his role/class/build will be at a disadvantage.

I just don't see this as any different from 3rd edition. If I wanted to play a half-orc wizard, I would be playing a suboptimal character and at a "disadvantage." But that doesn't necessarily gimp the character.

Likewise, I don't think my Dragonborn Wizard will be so terrible that he is unplayable.