An old idea for Multi-classing made new...

[Coredump]

Simplification, good news, bad news....

Veritas, interesting. I have a simplification, that may allow Prestige classes.

Track XP like a single class character, but divide it in half to determine level. This gives the same results as your method, but then allows for easier switching into prestige classes.
OTOH, it does make dealing with 'wizard' and 'fighter' awards more troublesome. You would have to divide by 2, then add the individual awards to level.

OR: When you qualify for a prestige class, just swap it out for one of the other classes. So the Fighter/Rogue qualifies for Invisible Blade, and now progresses as a Fighter/IB.

Good news: Seems pretty straightforward, and will not be overpowering.

Bad news: It will, however, leave the MC character behind. In straight XP, 125,000 makes a single character 16th level, and a MC character only 11th. Now, I don' know how the 'more XP for lower level' will effect this, but it is quite a gap to overcome.

I don't think this solves your initial problem. This *still* means a multiclassing arcane caster is at least 2 levels behind a straight caster. Personally, I don't see that as a big problem, but it is the same problem you were trying to solve, I think.


BTW, what is the difference between your dual classing, and what is currently going on?

 

[Veritas]

I would be more inclined to average the two classes. Doing it this way makes it almost seem too powerful. Basicly the 'best of both worlds'. Upon advancing a level, the stat might have to be completely recalculated instead of a simple increase. But it seems a little fairer. This way you take the good and the bad of both classes.

I tried it that way and it ended up even worse than a standard multiclass character in nearly all respects, so it went contrary to my original intent.

I am not real wild about this variation but I can't exactly tell you why. I think I would be more inclined to let the char trade the Armore prof. for a weapon prof. or other combat feat. I'll have to think about it some more.

Let me know what you come up with. I currently like it, since it allows the old "elven fighter/magicuser" wearing armor and casting spells that I like so much. heh. And a 10% reduction overall isn't that much.

I like the 'lower level characters get larger %XP' rule. However, in your example you gave the larger percentage of XP to the 22nd level char. Unless I am thinking about it incorrectly a 11/11 char is 22nd level just as it would be if the char had dual-classed. I am not sure completely, now that I try to think it thru, so I could probably be talked out of it.

I really like the idea tho. I alwasy preferred the 2e rules better that the 3e/3.5e version of multi-classing.

Hmph, I thought I edited the post to reflect that, but in this version of multiclassing, you do not add the character's levels together. Oh, wait, there it is... I mention it in the 2nd paragraph below the list of traits. So, the 11th/11th level character is counted as being 11th level, not 22nd level. The 11th/11th level character is about en par with a 13th level character overall, and would be in a group of single-classed 13th level characters facing CR 13 creatures and obstacles... there's no way that they'd count as high as 22nd level. Others have assumed the same thing though, which is why I made the edit.

You might want to look to Unearthed Arcana for the rules on Gestalt characters, which are reprinted at http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/gestaltCharacters.htm

Yeah, I've seen those already. Thanks for the attempt at the "simple" solution, but I don't want gestalts. I want something akin to gestalts, but that are balanced to play with a group of normal characters.

Veritas, interesting. I have a simplification, that may allow Prestige classes.

Track XP like a single class character, but divide it in half to determine level. This gives the same results as your method, but then allows for easier switching into prestige classes.
OTOH, it does make dealing with 'wizard' and 'fighter' awards more troublesome. You would have to divide by 2, then add the individual awards to level.

OR: When you qualify for a prestige class, just swap it out for one of the other classes. So the Fighter/Rogue qualifies for Invisible Blade, and now progresses as a Fighter/IB.

Good news: Seems pretty straightforward, and will not be overpowering.

Bad news: It will, however, leave the MC character behind. In straight XP, 125,000 makes a single character 16th level, and a MC character only 11th. Now, I don' know how the 'more XP for lower level' will effect this, but it is quite a gap to overcome.

I don't think this solves your initial problem. This *still* means a multiclassing arcane caster is at least 2 levels behind a straight caster. Personally, I don't see that as a big problem, but it is the same problem you were trying to solve, I think.


BTW, what is the difference between your dual classing, and what is currently going on?

Hmmm... the prestige class idea has some merit, but I'm still leery of giving MC characters prestige classes. They would qualify for them far sooner than anyone else, and that may open up for some fairly harsh powergaming and munchkinism. I'm thinking that leaving out PrCs for multiclassing might be the best thing, and would be a limitation to balance out any additional power they have.

I've excel'd out the numbers on awarding the higher amount of xp for lower level and it works really well, actually. MCs are equal to single-class for 1st level of the single-class (of course), then are a level behind until around 7-8th level, then they're 2 levels behind from then on.

And 2 levels behind is far better than 4 or 6 levels like for the standard-multiclassing. I'm willing to live with that. The added bonus of the 2nd class will close that gap, I think. I just wanted them closer, not even. Even would be the gestalt, and that's too powerful to exist with a group of single-classed characters.

Now... dual-classed characters are almost exactly the same as standard multiclassing. You start off in one class and can switch to another class. The only difference is that you can only pursue two classes (not including prestige classes).

I'm still not entirely set on how I want the mechanics of dual-classing to work though. Part of me wants to make it more like old dual classing... so you can advance in one class, then switch to another, but then you wouldn't be able to advance the old class again at all. You would then proceed with your new class, but having access to all the abilities of your old class frozen at that level. Another part of me said "why bother, just have it like standard multiclassing, but limit the number of classes to two". Personally, I haven't been fond of the idea of players having more than two classes at the same time anyways, since it spreads them too thin. I don't count PrCs in that consideration, since those build upon existing skills rather than starting a whole new set of them.

 

[Coredump]

So, lets say you have an 11/11 with a party of 13's. They recieve XP, the 11/11 recieves it as if he were 11th level, so he will get more than one of the 13's. But he has to (in essence) cut it in half.

You are saying, that the amount 'extra' he gets, offsets having to cut it in half, so that he stays about 2 levels behind. Correct?

Theoretically, he is more powerful than 11, so he should probably get XP as a 12th level, but that may screw things up.

I think prestige classes like Eldritch Knight were made for this situation. (fighter/Mage) or Arcane Trickster (Rogue/mage)
What makes this method better than those?

 

[Veritas]

So, lets say you have an 11/11 with a party of 13's. They recieve XP, the 11/11 recieves it as if he were 11th level, so he will get more than one of the 13's. But he has to (in essence) cut it in half.

You are saying, that the amount 'extra' he gets, offsets having to cut it in half, so that he stays about 2 levels behind. Correct?

Yup. The numbers support that. Honestly, I like the level-independent xp variant for use with this. No manipulation of the numbers is necessary. They don't get any more or less than any other character, their xp just counts as a higher percentage of their level (even with dividing by two). Since the xp totals for level-independent xp have a pattern where whatever level you are is double the xp of two levels below you, this works out to keep the multiclass 2 levels below the single-classed.

Theoretically, he is more powerful than 11, so he should probably get XP as a 12th level, but that may screw things up.

True, he is more powerful than 11, but he's not as powerful as 12. The numbers are easily manipulated though. I was just going by the numbers on the chart, but you could easily compute an amount for "11.5".

I think prestige classes like Eldritch Knight were made for this situation. (fighter/Mage) or Arcane Trickster (Rogue/mage)
What makes this method better than those?

Well, you have to qualify for those prestige classes so you can only take them later in the character's career, so they'll still be much farther behind their friends in spell power and such. Multiclassing this way lets you keep up with the other party members, but doesn't make you too powerful, as the straight gestalt does.