An other Wild Shape question (*sigh*)

[The Souljourner]

Nicely put, jgsugden.

It's nice to have the quote from Andy Collins to know what the intent was. That's always more important to me than what the rules say depending on what the definition of "is" is.

-The Souljourner

 

[youspoonybard]

Yupperu. That's what I do.

 

[Scion]

sorry about this slight hijack, although along the same lines really.

Have they taken out the line where magical equipment resizes to the wearer? or did they put a qualifier on it? (ie can only shift within one or two size categories) I dont recall if it was changed or not, if it was left alone then shouldnt the armor resize itself on its own, but not through the spell directly?

 

[youspoonybard]

Armor and Weapons do not resize.

Other magical items do.

 

[pppo]

Yes, “power = staying alive” and as long as the power is in line with the role of the character or the class anything is fine. But IMO, you might have guessed it, it does not fit to the concept of the druid to run around as a dressed animal. It lacks style; just as a good aligned mage who primarily summons evil critters because they have better combat abilities.

Another reason not to allow a wild shaped druid to wear equipment is balance:
Even without his equipment a wild shaped druid is a spell-casting (very easy with natural spell) fighting machine, for 1h/level. Not to forget his scouting abilities. Add the best parts of his equipment while he is wild shaped and he will be much more powerful. Wild shape becomes a "get all pay nothing" no-brainer.
A different approach: As a dire bear or dire tiger the druid has, for several hours (not just for 1 min/level like polymorph), much better str and con than in druid form. The dex might be better as well. How many gp do you have to spent to get these bonuses (and don’t forget: cats grace, … are only min/level now)? Add this to the gp value of the equipment you allow your wild shaped druid to wear (I am sure the druid is able to wear the most expensive parts while in his favourite wild shape). Wow!
If the druid pays for the advantage to use his equipment in wild shape too as it was in 3.0 (see MotW) it might be ok from the balance point of view.

BTW: If you want to get rid of your equipment wear it while wild shaped into a fire elemental.

 

[Dark Dragon]

Armor and Weapons do not resize.

Other magical items do.

Fine. Er, I suppose, it's somwehere stated in the DMG?
So, my druid (who is extremely underequipped at level 17) could wear a bandolier of AC +6 when fighting as an air elemental.
Or the bandolier, bracers of health, a ring or two and an amulet when fighting as a dire bear.

ppo: I agree to your argument about the style and I would have no problems about a proper ruling back in old AD&D times. But this is D&D 3.5 which is a lot deadlier. A WSed druid has a really bad AC and won't survive melee combat for long except when he grapples the opponents (which works good for NPC fighters, but not for monsters fighting with natural weapons). A WSed druid has also lower saves when his cloak of resistance is not working. Plus certain bonus spells are lost when the periapt of wisdom is deactivated.
The fire elemental form is really bad for WS, except when a Resistance to Fire was cast before. That and because of having Mielikki as a patron deity is the reason why my druid never takes a fire elemental form.

I could agree also on the WS version in MotW, but the DM sees no need to change 3.5 WS. And some of his monsters (a dragon, a huge intelligent cat monster) used equipment, so why shouldn't a druid who is also intelligent (hopefully), uses treasure and equipment?

jgsugden: Thanks for posting the intents from some WotC guys. I hope they'll come up with a clarification for Polymorph, Alter Self and Wild Shape soon.

 

[Brekki]

Fine. Er, I suppose, it's somwehere stated in the DMG?

DMG 213: "Many magic garments are made to be easily adjustable, or they adjust themselves magically to the wearer."

Also has a bit about halflings and really large characters.

A WSed druid has a really bad AC and won't survive melee combat for long except when he grapples the opponents (which works good for NPC fighters, but not for monsters fighting with natural weapons). A WSed druid has also lower saves when his cloak of resistance is not working. Plus certain bonus spells are lost when the periapt of wisdom is deactivated.

Say What ???

1> A wildshaped druid has a great AC ...
- wild bronze/darkwood breastplate or darkleaf fullplate is only 10k to 15k
- a "free" natural armor bonus of +7 to +10 is easy for druids
- an animated large wooden shield is only 9k
- at 8th lvl you can already cast barkskin for +5 NA (using strand of prayer beads)
- a ring of protection can be used in a lot of shapes
- most animals have quite a decent dex

2> A lot of shapes could allow you to wear a vest of resistance, or you could cast major resistance for +3 or superior for +6 (both from savage species).

3> Almost every shape has a neck, so you can wear a periapth ... and if you're really into weird shapes you can always invest in ioun stones.

 

[Dark Dragon]

Say What ???

1> A wildshaped druid has a great AC ...
- wild bronze/darkwood breastplate or darkleaf fullplate is only 10k to 15k
- a "free" natural armor bonus of +7 to +10 is easy for druids
- an animated large wooden shield is only 9k
- at 8th lvl you can already cast barkskin for +5 NA (using strand of prayer beads)
- a ring of protection can be used in a lot of shapes
- most animals have quite a decent dex

Granted. IF the druid has such fine things (mine has not, unfortunately ) and IF the DM allows that a RoP / bracers of X / ... works fine with WS.

2> A lot of shapes could allow you to wear a vest of resistance, or you could cast major resistance for +3 or superior for +6 (both from savage species).

Sure it is possible, but not every DM would agree unless a clear rule is at hand. I'm in doubt that the DM would allow an additional splat book like savage species. It won't need much and he'll ban Magic of Faerûn from our FR campaign...

3> Almost every shape has a neck, so you can wear a periapth ... and if you're really into weird shapes you can always invest in ioun stones.

Yup, but to make sure, my druid created a wilding clasp for his periapt. Ioun stones are really expensive and easily stolen or destroyed (the druid lost his spell storing stone to a shatter spell...).

 

[DM2]

Ioun stones are really expensive and easily stolen or destroyed (the druid lost his spell storing stone to a shatter spell...).

I guess the fear that someone will target one with a strike object attempt or the caster will fail a save with a 1 is a real fear with a stone that has only 10 HP.

Shatter can't destroy one though, or even damage it. Shatter works on nonmagical objects only.

DM2

 

["Jack" Reapersaurus]

Armor and Weapons do not resize.

Other magical items do.

And that's one of the most common rules that I'd surmise has been thrown out of 3.5 in many campaigns.