Anakin (spoilers and speculation)

[The Grumpy Celt]

I was finally able to fully down load the RotS trailer. It was very interesting. Except the part with Anakin’s eyes glowing. My eyes do that normally so I wasn’t impressed.

However, it has made me think of something I discussed before with friends of mine. Namely that Darth Vader had well passed the point of forgiveness.

Even tabling the destruction of Alderaan – which he merely facilities rather than actively did – he is still personally responsible for his roll in the Jedi Order, which he had sworn an oath to be a part of. He murders fellow Jedi, betray a sacred trust, tries to kill his mentor Kenobi, among numerous other sins. He plays a vital roll in the destruction of the Republic. Anakin is apparently responsible for the death of Padme – as compared to Palpatine having her killed – as well.

Frankly it seems he should be past the point of forgiveness and redemption. Granting it too him dismisses his role in a catalog of crimes.

Perhaps this is why some people are so insistent on Darth Vader and Anakin Skywalker being two people in a single (damaged) body.

Forgiveness is extended too easily I these types of stories.

 

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

Anakin is apparently responsible for the death of Padme – as compared to Palpatine having her killed – as well.

Spy Reports were never clear on the fate of Padme. We do 'know' that Anakin at least Force Chokes her and throws her against something(then, apparently, the big Obi-Wan vs. Anakin fight starts), but there's no actual word to whether she dies or not. At least, other than Leia saying that her mother died when she was very young.

Frankly it seems he should be past the point of forgiveness and redemption. Granting it too him dismisses his role in a catalog of crimes.

Perhaps this is why some people are so insistent on Darth Vader and Anakin Skywalker being two people in a single (damaged) body.

Forgiveness is extended too easily I these types of stories.

Anakin deserves forgivness because what happened to him was because of circumstances out of his own control. He fell to the Dark Side not because of love, etc, but a large part because of the limitations of the Jedi Order at the time. The blame goes in tons of places also, as Palpatine manipulated EVERYTHING everywhere.

Anakin was a good man. And the fact that he killed the Emperor in Return of the Jedi proves this. Its interesting in a way, because its the very thing that the Jedi Order restricted that saved Anakin. Love. For his son.

 

[Captain Tagon]

Forgiveness isn't forgiveness if someone deserves it.

 

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

Forgiveness isn't forgiveness if someone deserves it.

True. Thinking about it though, Anakin never really asked/wanted/recieved forgiveness. He got redemption though...I'd say that's better and more important that forgiveness.

 

[RangerWickett]

I agree with Captain Tagon. Forgiveness is not earned. It's not necessarily deserved. It doesn't even have to be asked for. Forgiveness is not based on what the evil-doer does; it is what he receives from others. Redemption is when an evil person seeks to atone for the wrongs he has done, and true redemption is never predicated on being forgiven.

That is why I can forgive George Lucas.

 

[mojo1701]

I agree with Captain Tagon. Forgiveness is not earned. It's not necessarily deserved. It doesn't even have to be asked for. Forgiveness is not based on what the evil-doer does; it is what he receives from others. Redemption is when an evil person seeks to atone for the wrongs he has done, and true redemption is never predicated on being forgiven.

That is why I can forgive George Lucas.

Wow.

 

[Orius]

I was finally able to fully down load the RotS trailer. It was very interesting. Except the part with Anakin’s eyes glowing. My eyes do that normally so I wasn’t impressed.

*backs away slowly*

 

[Krieg]

I was finally able to fully down load the RotS trailer. It was very interesting. Except the part with Anakin’s eyes glowing. My eyes do that normally so I wasn’t impressed.

You know, ya might wanna go to the doctor and have your kidneys checked out.

Forgiveness is extended too easily I these types of stories.

The ability to forgive, no matter how heinous the crime...is what distinguishes the one able to forgive.

 

[The Grumpy Celt]

*backs away slowly*

(Turns glowing yellow eyes in Orius' direction)

What? What's wrong?

 

[The Grumpy Celt]

The ability to forgive, no matter how heinous the crime...is what distinguishes the one able to forgive.

Forgiving the Anakin the sins he accumulated as Darth Vader trivializes the suffering he created in others. But then forgiving a person often trivializes the suffering their sins create in others.

With all do respect to Ankh-Morpork Guard, even if Palpatine lied about everything right down to the color of the sky, Anakin still chose his own path.

With all do respect to RangerWickett, I feel you have (not intentionally) created a false distinction between forgiveness and redemption because – to me at least – the latter would not seem to be possible without the former.

And as a man raised Baptist, I cannot argue with Captain Tagon’s statement.

In any event, what are we to make of Anakin's apparent transcendence at the end of Return of the Jedi?

(Kidneys? What are kidneys?)