[Ancient Awakenings Publications] VoFT now $5.00 / Observations of PDF prices...

philreed said:
Or I could be wrong. I do feel the future of game PDF publishing will rely heavily on short PDFs.

Well, everyone already knows of my annoyance of the "chunk'o'book" concept. I do see a place for these products as a way to generate a little extra money through early publication of short PDF "teasers", but I don't think they should be produced in the insane quantities that both LPJ Designs and your own Ronin Arts do. And when used as a teaser (or eventually added to a compilation), those short PDFs should be removed from the catalog once the larger product containing them is released.

I also expect to see a sharp division between "pro" and "fan" publications and sales within the next 12 months. What I'm expecting to see is most PDF customers relying less on random surfing and shopping and more on purchasing only from a select few larger, established publishers.

I'm expecting to see this too. People are getting tired of all the one-hit wonders out there who do one book and vanish. And don't get me started on all the companies on RPGnow who signed up as vendors, but never bothered releasing a single product...

But on the flip side, I also expect to see soon after that a change on the "fan" side as well. Just as GOO, MEG and GRG have started up vanity imprints on the paper side, I'm sure someone will start up a vanity imprint on the PDF side as well.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out. Especially with companies like White Wolf and Steve Jackson Games getting into the PDF distribution arena. Those companies, and anyone else attempting to create their own PDF distribution site, will face a monumental challenge of unseating www.rpgnow.com so it's sure to be a wild ride for PDF consumers and publishers.

The ones who unseat rpgnow will be the ones who can offer more features and better features than RPGnow, at the same or better prices. Simply offering the same rates and features won't cut it.

WW and SJGames currently have little or no chance to be contenders, because their inventories are too narrow. Until they put some real effort in expanding their PDF offering to products outside their own company inventories, neither will do any better in the PDF arena than any other company trying to sell games on their own website.

SVGames won't be a contender for three reasons: no communications, they take 50%, and no vendor control over sale prices.

Hyperbooks Online... well, all I can say is Terry needs to learn a lesson from the larger online vendors and learn not be so nebulous with vendor information. Closest thing I saw for a percentage take for Hyperbooks was 75%, but that was in return for him acting as a producer (editing layout, art, etc). Currently, his big benefit are a multitude of delivery options and a strong customer service orientation.

Amazon.com won't be any contention, either. Already too big for its britches, I've seen too much vendor and consumer grief related to them. Slow payment, nonpayment, JIT stock architecture, and the requirement for an ISBN on a PDF are all reasons to stay away, whether you do print or PDF. It just isn't cost effective to do business with them.

Ironically, the only contender was a company that doesn't deal in PDFs anymore; RPG.net. The system was very similar to RPGnow, and at one point, their delivery system they had was one that could have easily integrated very basic anti-piracy security. But these days, they won't even touch a PDF

Hmmm... Yeah, security is going to become an issue in the next year or two. A lot of PDF publishers are loosing money in buckets and don't even know it. But eventually, everyone will catch on and start demanding an online shop that provides anti-piracy measures.

A subscription model is also something I expect to see gain popularity.

Subscription models make me sick to my stomach. I've had more problems with subscriptions on and off line than I have had with any other financial dealing in my life. I could probably manage to finance a multimillion dollar house on the first try easier than I could manage to get a subscription working right on the first try.

At this time, the only people subscription models work well for are those folks running porn sites. It will be another 10 years before there's a real mainstream headway made in the conversion of print subscription models to online subscription models.
 
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Dana_Jorgensen said:
Well, everyone already knows of my annoyance of the "chunk'o'book" concept. I do see a place for these products as a way to generate a little extra money through early publication of short PDF "teasers", but I don't think they should be produced in the insane quantities that both LPJ Designs and your own Ronin Arts do. And when used as a teaser (or eventually added to a compilation), those short PDFs should be removed from the catalog once the larger product containing them is released.

And this is only your opinion (just as most everything I say is only my opinion). A thread elsewhere on this site featured others coming out and saying they like shorter PDFs because they can buy only what they want. The wonderful thing about PDF publishing is that by releasing several short PDFs and one compilation you can give (almost) everyone what they want.

One could argue that your various gun PDFs do the same thing (your "chunk'o'book" as you called it). I, for one, could care less about having stats for a dozen different pistols. For me "Pistol" is all I need.

Dana_Jorgensen said:
At this time, the only people subscription models work well for are those folks running porn sites. It will be another 10 years before there's a real mainstream headway made in the conversion of print subscription models to online subscription models.

Not true. I've seen numbers on Pyramid and can say that model is working well. I suspect the first company to have major success with such a model in the D20 world will be Paizo with an online Dragon magazine but there's nothing stopping someone else from succeeding with a subscription model. Green Ronin, Bastion Press, Mongoose, Privateer Press -- all of these guys could run a successful subscription-based PDF delivery system. Hell, if any of those guys wanted to run such a venture I'd volunteer to help them run it.

Completely new publishers trying to run a subscription service will have a much harder time doing so. The customers have no way of knowing if this is a serious outfit with the skills and financing to do what they claim or if it's just a guy with an idea who will get bored with it in a month.
 

philreed said:
Not true. I've seen numbers on Pyramid and can say that model is working well. I suspect the first company to have major success with such a model in the D20 world will be Paizo with an online Dragon magazine but there's nothing stopping someone else from succeeding with a subscription model. Green Ronin, Bastion Press, Mongoose, Privateer Press -- all of these guys could run a successful subscription-based PDF delivery system. Hell, if any of those guys wanted to run such a venture I'd volunteer to help them run it.

Completely new publishers trying to run a subscription service will have a much harder time doing so. The customers have no way of knowing if this is a serious outfit with the skills and financing to do what they claim or if it's just a guy with an idea who will get bored with it in a month.

Pyramid? Thats the Gurps publishing system right?

The differance is, it has no compitition at all. They want it, they HAVE to go to Pyramid. D20 is open, has hundreds of publishers, and tons of free material on the net...

I gotta say that's a big differance when dealing with customers...
 

mroberon1972 said:
Pyramid? Thats the Gurps publishing system right?

The differance is, it has no compitition at all. They want it, they HAVE to go to Pyramid. D20 is open, has hundreds of publishers, and tons of free material on the net...

Rather than get into the argument of if Pyramid is only GURPS or not I will point out I was mentioning Pyramid because it is a successful subscription model that is not porn. The post I was quoting stated that only porn had any success with online subscriptions.
 


philreed said:
One could argue that your various gun PDFs do the same thing (your "chunk'o'book" as you called it). I, for one, could care less about having stats for a dozen different pistols. For me "Pistol" is all I need.

Actually, one cannot argue that. The Big Bang series is not some little, annoying, catalog crowding bunch of projects that individually don't even add up to an entire book. They have virtually all ranged from over 35 pages in size to more than 100 pages in size. It is a series of full size books.

Not true. I've seen numbers on Pyramid and can say that model is working well. I suspect the first company to have major success with such a model in the D20 world will be Paizo with an online Dragon magazine but there's nothing stopping someone else from succeeding with a subscription model. Green Ronin, Bastion Press, Mongoose, Privateer Press -- all of these guys could run a successful subscription-based PDF delivery system. Hell, if any of those guys wanted to run such a venture I'd volunteer to help them run it.

Magazines and full-sized themed products are two entirely different beasts. They may work with mediocre success for magazines (including Pyramid), but I have serious doubts they would work even with a series of regular products, let alone the general catalog of a company.
 

Dana_Jorgensen said:
Actually, one cannot argue that. The Big Bang series is not some little, annoying, catalog crowding bunch of projects that individually don't even add up to an entire book.

Dana:

If you can't keep the nastyness out of your posts, then keep your posts out of my press releases.

End of discussion.
 

mroberon1972 said:
Try these stats:
www.RPGNOW.com page: 920 hits.
Sales: 15

Getting back on topic here...

Based on the little bit shared by other publishers and our own experiences, a conversion rate of 1.6% (sales / visits) is about average. I'd be very interested to hear other publishers come forward with their own sales conversion percentages demonstrating otherwise.

When you start looking at the numbers, it makes much more sense to figure out a way to get more people who already visit your page to actually buy than it does to drive new people to the site.

Frankly we've been struggling with the same thing, but thus far with little success. We've tried adding "window dressing" in the form of html tables and artwork from the game (compare this to this. Honestly, it hasn't seemed to make a significant difference. We're also experiementing with better descriptive text, but it's just hard to isolate all the variables to tell what makes a difference. Any constructive thoughts are always welcome.
 


Dana_Jorgensen said:
Actually, one cannot argue that. The Big Bang series is not some little, annoying, catalog crowding bunch of projects that individually don't even add up to an entire book. They have virtually all ranged from over 35 pages in size to more than 100 pages in size. It is a series of full size books.

And I say that they could all be lumped into one big release titled "Lots of Guns." I'm also not complaining about your releases by calling them "annoying, catalog crowding" so I would appreciate it if you could try to also keep from complaining. If you're going to release products you need to deal with the market as it exists. If you're right and my shorter PDFs are "annoying" and "catalog crowding" then sales will prove it and I will switch to another model. So far, my model seems to be working just fine so I'll stick with it.

Dana_Jorgensen said:
Magazines and full-sized themed products are two entirely different beasts. They may work with mediocre success for magazines (including Pyramid), but I have serious doubts they would work even with a series of regular products, let alone the general catalog of a company.

While they are different beasts I would be happy with my best PDF if it had sold 1/4 the number of subscribers Pyramid typically has at any time. What you consider "mediocre success" I see as numbers I can envy and strive for.
 

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