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And then there were 8! On Chris Sims and Jennifer Clarke Wilkes' Layoffs...

I've seen quite a few people speculating that Chris Sims and Jennifer Clarke-Wilkes may not have been made redundant, but possibly fired for various reasons, or because contracts ended (given that Jennifer has been at WoTC for about 15 years, that latter guess was always going to be very unlikely!). For that reason, I feel it's a good idea to set things straight and find out exactly what happened; I'm sure neither want rumours like that to start! The short version: yep, they were lay-offs.

I've seen quite a few people speculating that Chris Sims and Jennifer Clarke-Wilkes may not have been made redundant, but possibly fired for various reasons, or because contracts ended (given that Jennifer has been at WoTC for about 15 years, that latter guess was always going to be very unlikely!). For that reason, I feel it's a good idea to set things straight and find out exactly what happened; I'm sure neither want rumours like that to start! The short version: yep, they were lay-offs.

Chris Sims kindly shared with me that "Jennifer Clarke Wilkes and I were laid off on Wednesday the 28th. Our positions were eliminated, reducing the D&D team to eight people working directly on the tabletop game."

Hopefully that will put some speculation to rest! Here's the original article, for context.

Who makes up the 8 still working on the RPG? Mike Mearls, Rodney Thompson, Jeremy Crawford, Greg Bilsland, Chris Perkins, Peter Lee, Matt Sernett, Adam Lee.

The 8 does not include art or brand staff, including community manager Trevor Kidd, brand/marketing managers, Organized Play program managers and the like, which brings the number up to about 13.

As an interesting point of comparison, Paizo CEO Lisa Stevens kindly shared that "We don't have any part time employees. The 25 full-time were folks that worked directly on Pathfinder products in design, development, editing and art. Currently, we are pushing 60 employees in the company and growing. In the next few months, we will be hiring more editors and developers to support Pathfinder. 2014 was our best year ever in both sales and profits. Still going up!"
 

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Celtavian

Dragon Lord
Hmm. I wonder what's going on.

I am getting somewhat bored of the game. The concentration mechanic is making magic extremely limited and boring. When I can only cast one fly spell and then do nothing else with concentration, that makes me limited to cantrips or launching direct damage spells (which there are not many of). There are no ways to boost magical damage. So as a wizard I get to cast fly and watch the fighter or paladin do a truck ton of damage, while I do 10 or so points a round to their 40 or 50. I can't cast any of my quality attack spells for sustained damage like flaming sphere or Bigby's Hand while I have protective or utility buffs active. That severely limits me. I have to do this almost every time against legendary creatures. That makes for a very limiting and boring experience as a caster.

As a cleric all my slots are used for healing or protective spells. I do almost nothing else but heal and buff dropping the occasional cantrip damage. I always have to be concerned about concentration spells before I cast anything else.

No one takes true strike save for perhaps Eldritch Knights or Arcane Tricksters (even they might not take it), because why risk breaking a higher level concentration spell casting true strike. The concentration mechanic has turned casters into very boring characters the higher level they get. It's far, far, far, far too limiting. They went overboard controlling casters and have turned them into boring buff machines with no other function in a group unless they want to ignore the protective measures necessary to protect the party from strafing dragons, AoE attacking mages, or the like.

I feel like once again D&D went in the wrong direction with magic. If they don't correct it quickly, this edition is going to fail to do what it was intended to do. Bottom line is D&D players want interesting arcane casters. There is no getting around it. The concentration mechanic kills that. Who cares if you have more spell slots if you can't use them because you have an active protective or utility buff preventing you from using an offensive spell. If the magic system fails, the game will fail. Until D&D accepts that lesson, they won't match Pathfinder. Pathfinder casters are way more interesting, versatile, and capable. If at least half of your player base enjoys playing casters (divine or arcane), limiting the magic system as much as they have just pushed those people into games where casters are much more interesting and less limited.

At first I didn't think the concentration mechanic was a big deal. But once you start fighting tougher creatures with major AoE attacks that can decimate the entire party, it becomes a big deal. You can't protect the party without a concentration based spell except for fire or cold damage, once you cast a concentration spell you can't launch effective offensive spells without breaking the concentration spell. Couple that with legendary resistance and magic resistance making saving throw spells almost useless pushing you into concentration magic attack spells that you can't use with an active buff, you have casters that are boring, limited, and frustrated.

I've reached the point on my wizard that I barely enjoy playing him. I feel like switching to a rogue or warrior type that doesn't have to worry about concentration. I get sick of fighting a dragon or legendary creature that automatically saves against my attack spells. I get tired of casting fly on the fighter and paladin, making it so I can't cast Bigby's Hand to do consistent damage. I'm limited to launching fire bolt over and over again with maybe a fireball that does 15 points (barely more than my fire bolt) and far less than the paladin and fighter because I have to keep the concentration buff up.

What play testers told the game designers that concentration worked? It is lame at higher level to the point of making the wizard a boring buff bot that does minimal damage and barely any effects, because they're all concentration or easy saves. Big time miss on the magic system for someone like me that likes playing casters.

Some of the other players are getting bored because writing down gold is pointless now. We have all this gold and treasure, but nothing to do with it. When the DM says "You find 3000 gold", we all shrug. We're all thinking, "So what. We buy a keep that doesn't matter. Spend our time wenching and drinking for the umpteenth time. Buy a wagon load of healing potions to preserve the cleric spell slots. Big deal."

There are problems with 5th edition. Not with balance. It's amazingly balanced if you mean martial weapon users do all the damage while casters buff and heal them. You can win plenty of fights that way. That's not the problem. The problem is the magic system is boring. I can't imagine I'm alone in this opinion. Sure, you help the party get the job done. But when did anyone play a wizard or arcane caster to be a buff bot useless in the most important battles? I know I never played a wizard for that reason in any edition. Even in the 4th edition casters felt more substantial than they do in this edition. That's strange coming from me, since I did not like 4th edition. But damn I am getting bored playing my wizard. That concentration mechanic is making my life as a caster feel like watching paint dry. Cast one concentration spell, launch cantrip endlessly. That cant' be life as a wizard or arcane caster up to high level. That isn't fun.

I hope they take a look at some of this stuff quickly. I know once I'm done playing this wizard, I doubt I'll play another caster again until this stuff is fixed. I'm going to stick with archers or hybrids. I can't take the near immunity to magic of legendary creatures, the limitations of concentration, and watching martials do a ton of damage while I use all my slots to protect them or let them get into battle. That's not fun.
 
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werecorpse

Adventurer
I wondered if this might happen.
I always wondered why they didn't follow the old Bushido rpg mechanic. One buff can be in effect per person. So the limitation is based on the recipient not the caster.
 

dracomilan

Explorer
I guess the last two posts are WAY off topic.

Anyway, I love the way magic is managed in 5e. But 5e is mainly a ruleset for sword and sorcery - if you enjoy heroic fantasy better, then you should stick with 3e.
 

rknop

Adventurer
Here's hoping that Paizo never goes public.

Going public is a good way to ruin a company. Another is to be bought by a huge company. Sure, some people make a lot of money when those things happen, but more often than not it seems to suck the soul out of a company.

Can't help but wonder if Sims and Clarke Wilkes will be sending resumes to Seattle after Lisa's post that they're hiring more editors and developers....

Here's also hoping that the bottom doesn't drop out of Pathfinder. They seem to be doing well, and as a private company they can do some things to get through lean years that public companies can't do. But they're still subject to the whims of cash flow.
 

Mistwell

Crusty Old Meatwad (he/him)
Basically our speculation was correct. Sucks. I can only draw from this that 5e didn't do nearly as well as we thought. I'd love to hear evidence to the contrary though.

Why do you assume the two are related factors, particularly given all evidence to the contrary? They did layoffs after 3.0e was launched. They did layoffs after 3.5e was launched. Both were great launches. It's not a business plan I like, but it appears to be their standard business plan. Anyway, Hasbro's recent 10-Q officially announced the 5e launch did well - as in "covered by Federal Trade Commission Rules" type report.
 

Mistwell

Crusty Old Meatwad (he/him)
The comparison should be 13 vs 25 (the development in Pathfinder should include brand management roles, no?).
Since Paizo also produces card games et al., maybe we should now start comparing the 60 Paizo staffers to the whole WotC staff (on linkedin it shows 661 staffers, but usually some are ex staffers who didn't update the profile, freelancers etc.).
And regarding the presence of female staffers, I guess Shelly Mazzanoble is still onboard....

Yeah WOTC is the comparison to Paizo, not D&D is the comparison to Paizo.
 

trentonjoe

Explorer
If you want to see the TTRPG expand dramatically there's only way to do that, monetize play beyond buying one set of books.

I thought WOTC was doing this with their subscription model. I can't remember how much I paid per month to use their character builder and stuff in

3E.
 

Koloth

First Post
After reading the posting a few weeks back on the creation process of a traditional 30 page module and the large amount of labor involved, I have to wonder just how many new things we expect now? Unless there are some contracts with outside folk in place, it would seem they are a bit short staffed if they want to produce internally created products in a timely fashion. And without an OGL, how many 3rd parties are going to create stuff specifically for 5E?

And a related question. WOTC layoffs after edition releases have become the norm. Has anyone figured out the time lag after WOTC starts hiring new people before the announcement of the next edition?
 

Basically our speculation was correct. Sucks. I can only draw from this that 5e didn't do nearly as well as we thought. I'd love to hear evidence to the contrary though.
What makes you think they're not just reducing staff after completing the mammoth "core 3" because of the slower release schedule from now on? We could take all the signs that 5E are doing well at face value and assume that the team doesn't have to be as big as when they were making the PHB, MM and DMG.
 

Sacrosanct

Legend
Ah, the complaints of armchair businessmen who have no idea or experience with how business works*. That's to be expected I suppose. But when you start throwing out accusations of things like sexism? You should probably really step back. Those are pretty serious things to be throwing out there, especially when you don't have the first clue as to what's going on.

Oh, and Evanglare? You're in luck. You'd love to hear opposing arguments to your assumption? They start on page 1. There are also other threads about it. So you're in luck! Read the thread, and there you go.



*For the record, my degree is in business management, and I've been working in management for a large corporation for over a decade. So believe me when I say that while the situation sucks for those involved (I do have empathy), it's hardly shocking or surprising based on the business model WoTC told us they were taking as far as a year ago. And therefore such nefarious accusations are irresponsible and flat out wrong.
 

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