And then you have a nice winter, whilst the wizard slaves in the lab...

MerricB said:
As I play more and more 3.5e D&D, I see many different facets of the game. This one has the wizard who is a crafter. Another group had the blaster mage. I'm sure I'll see more use of metamagic feats in the future.

There is variety. This is good.

I'd like to encourage PCs to craft their own items, but short of saying, "Hey, this item crafting feat is really cool! You should take this one," what can you do? Talking to other players the problem seems to be that people don't want to burn a feat. They wouldn't mind the gp or xp cost, or even the time if the DM allows for downtime. The real problem is that every feat is so precious. You know you're going to use Weapon Focus or Empower Spell every session, you can't really say the same about Forge Ring.

I wonder if, in a campaign where no one has taken any crafting feats, it would be worthwhile to give out magic items like an Anvil of Crafting Arms and Armor or something. Sure it devalues the feats, and wouldn't be a good idea if someone in the party was spending their hard earned feat slots on item crafting feats, but if no one is taking them anyway it might be worth it just to get that element into the game.

Thoughts?


Morrow
 

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To take advantage of some very cool aspects of 3.5, players need to have downtime. I once hears someone said 2-3 days down for each day adventuring. Considering the stuff you can do with item creation feats, I'd definitely be willing to have my fighter take a vacation while the Mystic Theurge enchants his +5 Plate Mail of Invulnerability to Fire, Cold, Sonic, Acid and Electricity. Just give me a call when it's time to go...I'll be in the tavern over there...
 

I try to build downtime into my campaigns. One key thing to making it work is to let the players know that its OK to take some time - - very often they get into the mindset that everything needs to be dealt with immediately, and that they're on a major set time table, when in most cases they're not. You sometimes have to "give them permission" to take the time off.
 

In our Eberron game that just ended, the Artificer player used to BEG the group for downtime, because magic items were his life. They not only were his firepower and his strength, and that of the group, but they were also his livelihood; he earned his money by his magic item commission sales in the city of Sharn.

It's the most I've ever seen that player investing in a roleplaying game, because he had something to call his own, BESIDES the constant adventure. Personal contacts, religious organizations, temporal power - none of these interest him personally. But when a class came along whose primary function was item creation and by extension commerce, he was into the game 110%! I NEVER saw him interested in downtime in-game until then. :)
 

See, I don't "give" downtime, but rather am more than happy to have the PCs just take downtime. They always have the opportunity for a break, I fast forward if they don't want any, or spring a wacky adventure on them if they are just twiddling their thumbs rather than interacting or using non-adventure productively for their goals. This all said that they have a world dooming prophecy to avert, but its not one their wholly prepared for, and it just dawned on them to actually start making items now, rather than throwing themselves at prophesied challenges that they aren't quite ready for.

On the feats bit, that's why I scrapped the core item creation feats and absorbed the Monte Cook AU feats - their more flexible, and the spellcaster's have been more willing to take them because they can craft a wider variety of things within a category (like charged items, be they wands, rings, misc, etc etc). Its made the wizard happy since he wants to expend XP until the rest of the newer party members reach his level (he's 3 ahead of most others due to the age of the character in the run).

When they go shopping for magic it's completely random, I use Tablesmith to generate low power items and the occasionally wacky major one on the market, but it's always a crap shoot for them.

I can't wait for them to really consider the spells they have at their disposal too and see what kind of unique magic they'll come up with - that's the really fun part, watching the players come up with magic items not described in any book.
 

As DM I declare that each 'adventure' takes at least a week to complete (more if required) and this accounts for downtime - sure it might only be 3 days in the Dungeon of Doom but those other 4 are the prep time, recovery time and other time taken to interact in the real world.

I also require that PCs create NPC allies, family and friends with whom they can associate during their downtime. Sometimes I even use my homebrew Faction rules to see whats happening in their hometown to affect the 'mundane' lives of the PCs
 

Morrow said:
I'd like to encourage PCs to craft their own items, but short of saying, "Hey, this item crafting feat is really cool! You should take this one," what can you do? Talking to other players the problem seems to be that people don't want to burn a feat. They wouldn't mind the gp or xp cost, or even the time if the DM allows for downtime. The real problem is that every feat is so precious. You know you're going to use Weapon Focus or Empower Spell every session, you can't really say the same about Forge Ring.

I wonder if, in a campaign where no one has taken any crafting feats, it would be worthwhile to give out magic items like an Anvil of Crafting Arms and Armor or something. Sure it devalues the feats, and wouldn't be a good idea if someone in the party was spending their hard earned feat slots on item crafting feats, but if no one is taking them anyway it might be worth it just to get that element into the game.

Thoughts?


Morrow

Back in 2e days we found a few items which greatly helped with making other items. One was an artifact we had to return to its proper owners (it had same crazy ego so "had to" was pretty accurate). But it made it possible to forge inteligent magic items. We also found a forge that was very helpful for item making.

The general theme is that I wouldn't give them an item that immulated the feat, but I would give occasional access (as a reward from Dwarves or a Dragon say) to such an item. Further, if they do have the feat, maybe the item reduces the time, EXP and/or gold costs.

If you work it into the plot it can be a really cool reward. Much better then finding a couple of magic items no one wants and trading for something more interesting. But I would discurage such an item from being a magic ring or some other "use at any time" item.
If it is something like a forge in an abandoned castle or something it can really make things interesting. If they leave it there, maybe some evil baddies find it and start to use it. Or perhaps they find someone to gaurd it or start to use it as a base of operations. Add in some of the circles from Races of Stone (more non-moble goodness) and the party has some decisions to make....
 

Driddle said:
re personal XP spent on items for others:

"It's the master vampire lord ... with a half-dragon template! Everyone atta--"
"Hold on a sec. We owe the wizard a chance to make up the experience. So back off. This one's all his."

LOL.
 

MerricB said:
In any case, the wizard of the group decided he wants to craft a few more magic items, so everyone stopped off in Irongate for a few days.
...
The thing is, I really like that. I like it that the PCs are creating their own tools rather than just going and buying them. It's more efficient, for one thing.

It's a time-honored tradition IMC that winter is down-time. Oh, they'll go forth and combat evil if need be but otherwise they are quite happy to spend the snowy months drinking warm cider and tending to their pet projects.

It started out as a simple plot point when they were trapped in a mountain town at 2nd level without the skills or equipment required to leave the valley. The player were still feeling out their characters and weren't up to RPing out whatever hijinks occur during the long, dark months. Instead I fast-forwarded them to spring after they made their arrangements. The monk became a miner to cover his expenses, the rogue a locksmith, the bard just managed to eek by, while the cleric and wizard sold a few spells.

The next year was a very eventful one for them with both the characters and players exhausted. We spent a session or two RPing the PCs having fun, making friends, handling routine chores like crafting bows & scrolls, etc during the winter. It was such a hit that the "winter vacation" was born.

I found it helped them relate to their characters to say "Your heroes have slogged across a swamp, killed a hundred demons, slew a hydra, fought a living forest, avoided being dragon-chow by pure luck, dined with a Marquis, and earned enough cash to buy a small farmstead. Do you a) get back on your horse and do it again or b) spend some of that lucre on wine, women and song?"

New players are often stunned, though. When Mike joined the party they were heading to a savannah-wasteland to explore some ancient ruins at the behest of a wizard ally. When they reached the last major city the heroes got rooms in the swankiest place they could and proceeded to wallow in luxury for a week.
"What the heck are you doing? We're supposed to be exploring ruins!!"
"It's going to take us six weeks of brutal travel to get there, some of it we'll likely have to travel at night because the heat is so bad. We have no idea what's going to try and eat us since it's been two centuries since the last time anyone's visited the ruins but I guarantee you something is going to try and eat us. That's after we deal with various unpleasant local officials and bigwigs who try to throw their weight around. Given the fact the ruins have been there a thousand years I think we can wait 'til I've eaten my fill of Coq au Vin, sampled all the wine cellar has to offer and spent some time with this lovely lady who seems quite willing to lavish affection on me as long as my purse holds out."
 

It seems I'm one of few dissenting opinions here. I have a problem with spellcasters taking 400 days making scrolls for two reasons.
1. what do all of the other players do while that's going on
2. it's what the character can do not his stuff that the story is supposed to be about.

now don't get me wrong I love the idea of downtime but I don't think most players think their character through that much. Like I said that's great for the spellcasters but what about the rest. It usually is just an excuse for the rogue to do something stupid (I can hear the pleas now what! at least now things are moving).

so just wondering how do you guys resolve these points
 

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