D&D General (Anecdotal) conversations with Asian gamers on some problems they currently face in the D&D world of RPG gaming

[Immeril]

I think the issue at hand is separating things like samurai and ninja from Japanese culture. 5e mentions ninjas in passing in the monk entry, but otherwise just groups them in with the other shadowy assassins (I'm also a little sad that ninja according to modern Japanese pop culture isn't an option if I'm honest). monks themselves exist in this weird gray area, but at the very least most people recognize them as being from Chinese culture and based entirely fantasy versions of monks.

as an example Final Fantasy 14 has both samurai and ninja as classes, but canonically your character is not from the world's Japan-analogue. still, both classes are explicitly from that culture, and the NPCs who teach you are from that part of the world (p.s. that part of the world is an actual fleshed out place you can visit and explore, not just a vague notion in the game's lore).

True. Samurai is a very specific archetype tied to only one culture, as opposed to (for instance) a knight. However, I should think that using mythological figures shouldn't pose that much of a problem? A lot of games have taken a step back from Tolkienesque dwarves in order to distinguish themselves. The same should be allowed with oni or kappa?

 

[Doug McCrae]

Thanks for posting, I think it's a worthy contribution to the debate.

The gamers with Asian backgrounds may remain silent or even laugh it off in front of everyone there, but it is hurtful and is something that seems MANY of them have endured.

This is something to bear in mind when people say things like "I've never had any complaints". I think often members of groups that face discrimination choose not to complain about discriminatory behaviour for a wide number of reasons. That doesn't mean the behaviour is not a problem.

 

[Panda-s1]

I'd be interested in hearing more about your point 4 though. What does 'more recognition' look like?

I'd imagine for starters more open acknowledgement that video games have an influence on D&D. some games are fairly explicit in their inspiration from JRPGs, but historically the D&D player base gets SUPER UPSET when anything vaguely resembling video games weasels its way into the game (I do remember the time when 4e came out, and the umbrage I received for actually enjoying it).

 

[Panda-s1]

I don't see why OA should be removed.
There are many books that are problematic to our current way of thinking: To Kill a Mockingbird, Adventures of Huckleberry Finn, Little House on the Prairie, Uncle Tom's Cabin, Heart of Darkness, Peter Pan, the Allan Quatermain novels, ...
Most of these are in the public domain, but if a customer buys a printed copy, then a publisher makes profit of this purchase.

Then there's also confirmation bias. If I'm actually searching for racist or insensitive content, I will find it. Tolkien, for instance, told his publisher in 1938 that a German translation of The Hobbit could go hang because the German publisher asked if he could confirm that he was of arisch origin (i.e. not jewish). He could confirm this, but he refused to subscribe to the race-doctrine. On the other hand, he wrote in 1958 that Orcs were 'degraded and repulsive versions of the (to Europeans) least lovely Mongol-types'. So perhaps I should add The Lord of the Rings to the previous paragraph.

Removing a book means that you make any future discussion or analysis impossible, or at the very least biased.

Even Mein Kampf is still purchasable for academic purposes. Doesn't disregard the general opinion that it is a vile, antisemitic book.

...you're missing the point. WotC explicitly said they will try to be more culturally sensitive with their products, and therefore it's hypocritical of them to continue to make money off a book like OA. whether or not they remove it what matters is they, the company who owns the rights to it, no longer make money from it.

 

[Aldarc]

None of the original writers of OA receive money for WotC selling OA, do they?

 

[Seramus]

I always assume a ninja is not a ninja. It's a word in another language that describes a group or set of skills in the fantasy world that is easiest to compare to ninjas.

Like a translation for it, since common is not [your language].

 

[Immeril]

None of the original writers of OA receive money for WotC selling OA, do they?

AFAIK, most RPG writers are paid on either a per-word rate, or a fixed fee for a project.

 

[Horwath]

1&2; completely agree, make an effort to not be a jerk. unless you play alot with those people and know them very good so you Know if and when you can make those kind of jabs.

3; don't know how that goes with copyrigth and translation in WotC.
but English is one of the easiest languages to learn.

4&5. It's fantasy, so I do not care about where that inspiration comes, they can make continent that has "asian" samurais, "European" knights and "african" rangers all in 500 miles radius that come into daily contact and interaction.

As Bruce Lee said when he was making Jeet kune do, take from any style that you find useful and discard the rest.

 

[Aldarc]

AFAIK, most RPG writers are paid on either a per-word rate, or a fixed fee for a project.

So it is not as if WotC was responsible for any of the labor of OA nor do proceeds from the OA sales go to those whose labor produced OA?

 

[Panda-s1]

I always assume a ninja is not a ninja. It's a word in another language that describes a group or set of skills in the fantasy world that is easiest to compare to ninjas.

Like a translation for it, since common is not [your language].

I mean, even that's a little fraught. ninjas as they're typically depicted in Western media are sneaky assassins who sometimes use special tools and rely mostly on acrobatics to fight.

people make fun of Naruto, but that's actually a fairly typical (if not very stylized) example of how ninjas are depicted in Japanese media. the ninja you see in anime and manga are sneaky, but also have a heavy emphasis on magical abilities to fight and hide, and there's also a lot of specialized equipment that I'm not entirely sure gets shown in Western versions of ninjas.

it also doesn't help that ninja society was incredibly secretive and therefore we have little to no primary sources on their history.