D&D General (Anecdotal) conversations with Asian gamers on some problems they currently face in the D&D world of RPG gaming

[Maxperson]

Civil fraud is listed on Wikipedia as:

1. Somebody misrepresents a material fact in order to obtain action or forbearance by another person;
2. The other person relies upon the misrepresentation; and
3. The other person suffers injury as a result of the act or forbearance taken in reliance upon the misrepresentation.

Even if there's not way to win the cases, that's what a bunch of the media and politicians do all the time about scientific things.

You have to prove that they knew it was false. They could believe what they say. Then you have to prove that they wanted you to rely upon it, rather than just telling you what they think. Then they have to rely on it. Then they have to suffer damages, and being misinformed isn't a damage.

It kind of feels like when someone tells their 50 million twitter followers that <group x> is doing <horrible things> and needs to be stopped, that they are actually trying to get them to do violence. It's just that it's all legally fine and dandy to incite a crapton more people to a lesser degree, and get the equivalent terrorist effect.

Nope. They can be stopped a number of non-violent ways. If someone mistakes their intent and does violence... The courts give fairly wide latitude because that sort of thing. You have to be very clearly trying to get them to do violence.

 

[Maxperson]

Hatespeech is the step in between that requires regulation.

A stitch in time, save the lives of nine.

While it is still speech, it can be remedied mildly − by censorship.

When the offender ceases the hatespeech, they can return to the conversation.

However, when the hatespeech becomes action and people die, it can no longer be remedied.

I'll leave you to do more research on the subject. Have a good night.

 

[Panda-s1]

okay since we're getting off topic, how about some more?

my own mother yelled at me for holding my chopsticks wrong in case I offend my ancestors or—man this is tiring, just wtf.

 

[Cadence]

okay since we're getting off topic, how about some more?
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my own mother yelled at me for holding my chopsticks wrong in case I offend my ancestors or—man this is tiring, just wtf.

The focus on honor seems like a really solid attack to use against folks who don't find 1e OA problematic (as opposed to Trammell's other two big arguments which had the game mechanic time-line wrong). Has anyone had a defense against this one?

Unlike, say, about the reader not knowing variety of ways rice can be prepared (see #557 and life in the early 80s in the midwest where they very well might not), and your disagreement about base AD&D being occidental adventures (see #359 with another painful amount of stuff for probably not tons of disagreement).

Anyway, it feels like you've put out more than enough examples that everyone should pretty much agree that 1e OA doesn't have much use except for historical purposes. If folks were running something old school then it feels like they should grab something more modern, and at most crib off of the 1e OA class write up and spell list to keep everything to scale when they translate it back. And then hide the 1e OA book so they don't get any of the culture things from it.

 

[Panda-s1]

The focus on honor seems like a really solid attacks to me to use against folks who don't find 1e OA problematic (unlike Trammell's other two big arguments which had the game mechanic time-line wrong). Has anyone had a defense against this one?

Unlike, say, about the reader not knowing variety of ways rice can be prepared (see #557 and life in the early 80s in the midwest where they very well might not), and your disagreement about base AD&D being occidental adventures (see #359 with another painful amount of stuff for probably not tons of disagreement).

Anyway, it feels like you've put out more than enough examples that everyone should pretty much agree that 1e OA doesn't have much use except for historical purposes. If folks were running something back then it feels like they should grab something more modern, and at most crib off of the 1e OA class write up and spell list to keep everything to scale when they translate it back. And then hide the book so they don't get any of the culture things from it.

I don't want to hear people defend this. I'm just pointing this out.

and like, geez. I haven't played Curse of Strahd, but people talk about how it's a great adventure except for the part about Vistani. but you can just rewrite that small bit. OA is different, it's talking about culture at large and the setting it makes is like a huge caricature. I can't just cut out bits like honor or manners when everyone in the setting is supposed to be like this. if people want to own copies, then w/e, just understand why someone like me believes there's no merit in WotC to keep selling it after saying they're going to be more culturally sensitive.

 

[Voadam]

If folks were running something old school then it feels like they should grab something more modern, and at most crib off of the 1e OA class write up and spell list to keep everything to scale when they translate it back. And then hide the 1e OA book so they don't get any of the culture things from it.

If you ignore the culture stuff and six pages of setting and the honor system as not to your taste you still have a ton of useable stuff:

The races.
The classes.
The weapons.
The armor.
The ninja equipment.
The nonweapon proficiencies.
The martial arts.
The spells.
The monsters.
The magic items.

 

[Panda-s1]

If you ignore the culture stuff and six pages of setting and the honor system as not to your taste you still have a ton of useable stuff:

The races.
The classes.
The weapons.
The armor.
The ninja equipment.
The nonweapon proficiencies.
The martial arts.
The spells.
The monsters.
The magic items.

dude, if they're gonna describe the people of kara-tur like that what makes you think the rest of this stuff is gonna be treated any better?

 

[Cadence]

dude, if they're gonna describe the people of kara-tur like that what makes you think the rest of this stuff is gonna be treated any better?

As RPG designers for 1e it feels like they might have been semi-passable at making monsters and spells and figuring out weapon damage and appropriate armor classes for armor that fits in with the rest of the game mechanically. It always seems easier to me anyway to take things about a class or race or I don't like, and pop in something of equivalent advantage/disadvantage instead of remaking something new from the ground up. Or maybe a few of them weren't bad. So if one were running something old school, you could find a newer source book and use the old things as a template. Maybe a Ninja of good flavor for 1e is easier to build from the Thief, or Assassin classes, or maybe it's easier to do using the Ninja they have there after chucking the bad parts aside (or some multi-class, for mystical things).

 

[Panda-s1]

As RPG designers for 1e it feels like they might have been semi-passable at making monsters and spells and figuring out weapon damage and appropriate armor classes for armor that fits in with the rest of the game mechanically. It always seems easier to me anyway to take things about a class or race or I don't like, and pop in something of equivalent advantage/disadvantage instead of remaking something new from the ground up. Or maybe a few of them weren't bad. So if one were running something old school, you could find a newer source book and use the old things as a template. Maybe a Ninja of good flavor for 1e is easier to build from the Thief, or Assassin classes, or maybe it's easier to do using the Ninja they have there after chucking the bad parts aside (or some multi-class, for mystical things).

no no no, I'm talking about things like descriptions. I'm pretty sure the same way the PHB describes how paladins and druids are supposed to behave they have a lot to say about samurai and honor and probably an awkward interpretation about ritual suicide. I might be exaggerating, I might not. I don't know. I'm mostly in the "samurai are fighters" camp if I'm honest. but AD&D wasn't, so I have to imagine they at best awkwardly explain samurai culture.

 

[Cadence]

no no no, I'm talking about things like descriptions. I'm pretty sure the same way the PHB describes how paladins and druids are supposed to behave they have a lot to say about samurai and honor and probably an awkward interpretation about ritual suicide. I might be exaggerating, I might not. I don't know. I'm mostly in the "samurai are fighters" camp if I'm honest. but AD&D wasn't, so I have to imagine they at best awkwardly explain samurai culture.

Got it. And I think we're on the same page there.

I was only meaning that the mechanical parts might be useful for someone building it better for 1e. Using it something like the old 3.5 SRD, that was pretty much just crunch with the flavor and background stripped out (iirc). So, for the Samurai, if honor is in the crunch, then that would be a part to either sub out for something better, or a reason to just base it off of Fighter.