WisdomLikeSilence said:
Sorry buddy, but there is no contradiction. There is, however, great and deliberate misdirection. I figured Spike was going to get his soul back from the beginning, (something about his expression and self-loathing after the attempted rape) and was amused at how very carefully the writers wrote the entire thing. Every single thing that is said about Spike's quest could be applied to either the chip or his soul. I know, I was watching like a hawk for them to tip their hand one way or the other.
You crack me up. The 'misdirection' (like I already said, it isn't misdirection, but if that's the word you want for it have at it) isn't great, therefore I choose to believe it isn't deliberate. Whether it's bad writing accidentally or purposefully, well, I prefer accidentally. The emotion being shown after the attempted rape looked much more like anger at feeling self-loathing than simple self loathing, which is just obvious (examples to follow, since peoples’ memories here are so flawed).
(Just so you know though, 'misdirection' and your belief that 'every single thing that is said about Spike's quest could be applied to either the chip or his soul' are incompatible. Ambiguity is not misdirection. However, as I will show, it’s not as ambiguous as you’d like it to be.)
You know, when I saw The 6th Sense the plot twist was apparent 25 minutes in, and when it became
wicked obvious 10 minutes later I got up and walked out. It was crap writing. The writers of a TV series leaving themselves room is cool, but they screwed this one up. Just because you expected them to go there doesn't make it good.
Umbran said:
They can write good TV. They can make screw ups (like intending one thing, writing for it, and then changing to something contradictory). But it is impossible for them to use a ploy in a way that you feel is mediocre? I don't buy that. It's entirely possible for the writing team to pull the ambiguous ploy in a way that doesn't quite work for you.
Good TV is nice, but that's not why I watched Buffy. It was actually good writing at times, not just good TV. And for Christ's sake, either you also think there is a contradiction, or there is no ploy. You people are mixing things up. If it's just ambiguous, there is no ploy. There's indecision. "We'll decide how to proceed in the off-season. This is good enough for now." Now, for the lines in question: I am fully aware of the only quote anyone’s been willing to mention (the ‘give Buffy what she deserves’ line), the accurate text of which is:
SPIKE (cont'd)
Got any more ruddy tests, ya ponce?
I'll take anything you throw at me.
If it'll get me what I need to take
care of the Slayer, give her what's
coming to her, you just bring it on.
Bring on the whole--
(Is that ambiguous? Hell yes. The problem is, that is from the finale, Grave, and all the important lines are from three epsidodes earlier, Seeing Red (these are excerpts, not one flowing conversation. It is significant, however, that he doesn’t call her Buffy.):
SPIKE
What have I done?
(then)
Why didn't I do it? What has she
done to me?
(Why didn’t he do it? Why
didn’t he rape her?)
SPIKE
Why do I feel this way?
CLEM
(shrugs)
Love's a funny thing.
SPIKE
Is that what this is?
CLEM
Well, I don't know. Drinking,
breaking stuff -- how's your appetite?
You been eating?
SPIKE
I can feel it. Squirming inside my
head.
CLEM
Love?
SPIKE
The chip. Little Jiminy Cricket,
gnawing bits and chunks.
Spike puts his fingers to his heads probing harshly as if he's going to gouge the chip out with his bare hands. Clem eyes him with concern.
(Ambiguous? I think not)
CLEM
(re: Spike's head)
Maybe a wet cloth...?
SPIKE
Everything used to be so clear.
Slayer. Vampire. Vampire kills
Slayer, sucks her dry, picks his
teeth with her bones.
SPIKE
That's how it's always been. I've
tasted the life of two Slayers. But
with Buffy...
(hating himself)
This isn't the way it's supposed to
be. It's the chip. Steel and wires
and silicon. It won't let me be a
monster. And I can't be a man. I'm
nothing.
(This at least could go either way, taken out of context. In context, I’m afraid not).
SPIKE
She thinks she knows me. She thinks
she knows who I am. What I'm capable
of. She has no idea. I wasn't always
this way. It won't be easy, but I
can be like I was. Before they
castrated me. Before...
(a beat)
Then she'll see who I really am.
(If they had just left out the castration remark, this could be ambiguous, but it isn’t. It’s referring to the chip. There’s no room for interpretation).
SPIKE
Get nice and comfy Slayer. I'll be
back. And when I do... it's all
gonna change.
(Doesn’t help that he’s calling her Slayer again.)
So, why do I call this a mistake? Because if the writers wrote the end of 6 this way, knowing they are going to switch gears and ignore ALL of it in 7, they are morons. However, I am quite confident they are not morons, so it is obviously just a case of changed directions. Buddy.