Angry at players...

[S'mon]

It's still illegal to reproduce copyrighted material.

AR

Yes, and copyright law allows for quotation & attribution. Mind you, a table of starting gp and similar works of no or minimal creativity probably doesn't qualify for copyright protection in most jurisdictions.

 

[dargoth3]

My suggestion

Theres a chance the Shadow Dragon detected the Arcane eye and may well have scry'd the party to find out dared introde on its lair, depending on how cruel you want to be, you could say the Shadow dragon was Scyrying the party while they where laying out there plans (hence when the party fights the Dragons its ready for the spells they where going to use on it ie lots of Dispel magic and prepared spells)

As for the Dragon itself: The PCs know its a Shadow Dragon but it doesnt JUST have to be a shadow dragon give it some Wizard levels or maybe make it a Cleric of Shar and as several other people have suggested make extensive use of the Dragon Feats in the Draconomicon

 

[Bloodstone Press]

Well, I've just skimmed over the thread.

I think the morale of the story is that a close eye needs to be kept on meta-gaming and the DM should remind players of it as soon as he sees them do it.

Now, if the characters have been told in game by an NPC that there is a shadow dragon, and they can make their knowledge checks to know facts about the dragon, then I wouldn't have any problem with them going back to kill it. If there are overtly Good characters in the group, they may want to kill it simply because it is evil.

But players should never be allowed to use information they get out side the game to advance their characters in game. If the DM see's them doing that, I don't have a problem with him doing it right back to them. And really, if you are a player, you don't want a DM meta-gaming against you.

 

[Oni]

The problem is this, if the DM starts letting loose all the secrets of what could of happened, then you can't go back without being accused of meta gaming. It's not particular fair or nice to drop all this information on someone and then say you can't use it or you'll be cheating.

 

[ciaran00]

The problem is this, if the DM starts letting loose all the secrets of what could of happened, then you can't go back without being accused of meta gaming. It's not particular fair or nice to drop all this information on someone and then say you can't use it or you'll be cheating.

Not if there is a common expectation of those secrets being irrelevant to the future of the game. If the players want to play a meta game, then they'll be facing a tough one indeed (ie: one waged with the DM's resources).

If I'm talking about something out of character, my players know. I don't have to spell it out for them that I will retaliate if they think of transferring the information to their characters. Sharing information is one way for the DM to mix with his players, a group from which he is otherwise somewhat alienated (within the context of the game).

ciaran

 

[Plane Sailing]

CRs generally are reduced or increased based upon circumstances and environment, says so in the DMG. So no worries there.

Isn't it that CR's are static and ELs are reduced or increased based upon circumstances and environment? I think that's what it actually says in the DMG.

Whoah, how did they deserve XP for bypassing?? They didn't do anything did they? Heck, if they played smart and came up with a clever plan to bypass a couple very dangerous encounters....um, being alive and having no resources drained is it's own reward, no XP should be given at all. If you ask me the party had it easy, not having to risk life and limb and still getting XP...

Perhaps because it gives an example of this in the DMG mentioning a minotaur IIRC. Experience is gained for overcoming a challenge - if the challenge is to get into cell block H, then technically the experience would be gained whether you fought your way in past the minotaur or sneaked you way in past it, while killing the minotaur and not getting in wouldn't net any xps.

I grant you that D&D is particularly weak on handing out xps for these sort of situations - it is too heavily predicated on xp for combat, but there you go.

Cheers

 

[Piratecat]

Yes, and copyright law allows for quotation & attribution. Mind you, a table of starting gp and similar works of no or minimal creativity probably doesn't qualify for copyright protection in most jurisdictions.

I might not have been clear before, S'mon, so I'll be explicit: This thread is not the place to discuss copyright law. Email me or start a thread in Meta, but any further discussion of it here will be deleted.

 

[Tortoise]

Someting I'd like to know about this situation is what exactly are the PC's trying to prevent as a major campaign goal? Is the event world ending or just a major gain for the bad guys?

If it is world ending then here's a way out of it ...

Let the PCs have their dragon hunting fun that delays their main goal. If they miss the deadline have something major happen, but have them discover that another adventuring group was also on the case and managed to prevent the end of the world, but weren't successful at completely stopping the whole process and now bad things are running amuck and need cleaning up. What's left of the other adventuring group is in too bad a condition to be of any help and the main BBEG may have escaped (describe this with a level of uncertaintly). That will leave the PCs with having to clean up the mess and having to try and find the missing BBEG to prevent another attempt at ending the world.

 

[BSF]

Sharing information is one way for the DM to mix with his players, a group from which he is otherwise somewhat alienated (within the context of the game).

ciaran

That is one of the keys & one of the problems isn't it? It is hard to always keep all your little secrets to yourself. Sometimes, you just want to release a little pressure and tell the players something, anything! Of course, that is what makes EN World nice - you can share your secrets and thoughts with other people without having to give too much away to your players. Still, how do other DM's interact with their players? What kind of conversations do you have? I find that I discuss characterization more. I want to know where they want their characters to go so I can find RP opportunities to give them.

 

[S'mon]

I might not have been clear before, S'mon, so I'll be explicit: This thread is not the place to discuss copyright law. Email me or start a thread in Meta, but any further discussion of it here will be deleted.

I'm done.