Animal Intelegence

[Hairfoot]

ROFL

can i quit you for my sig?
Z

Please do.

 

[Nyeshet]

That was a pretty nifty list, Nyeshet.

I dont necessarily agree with where you placed each critter, but I like the general gist of things.

Out of curiosity, to which animals are you referring, and what level of intellect do you think best fits them?

A quick guide to my view of Int is listed below. Its not exactly as I invision each degree of Int, but it covers the basics - more or less:

-) Mindless
1) Capable of learning, Instincts
2) Basic Emotions
3) Very Simple Body Language, 'Clever' Behavior
4) Can Recall Past and Imagine Future, Can learn simple language
5) Basic Culture and Language develops innately, Fully Self Conscious
6) Fully Others-Conscious, a 'Conscious' develops - beings instead of creatures
8) Arts / Crafts develop for use other than tools, complex views of the afterlife exist
10) 'typical' human norm intellect

 

[Sledge]

What hapens to an animal who's INT goes above 3 temporarily? How about permanently?

Since animals cannot have an int above 2, the animal ceases to be an animal when it's int is increased. It does not however become a magical beast, unless explicitly stated in a spell description. Since it no longer has a type, it must no longer exist. Therefore any time you increase an animal's intelligence it explodes (sounds better than merely popping out of existence). A bit of a mess really, but still the fastest way to eliminate that Trex chasing you.

 

[ThirdWizard]

Since animals cannot have an int above 2, the animal ceases to be an animal when it's int is increased. It does not however become a magical beast, unless explicitly stated in a spell description. Since it no longer has a type, it must no longer exist. Therefore any time you increase an animal's intelligence it explodes (sounds better than merely popping out of existence). A bit of a mess really, but still the fastest way to eliminate that Trex chasing you.

It could implode. Or write itself out of history completely. Oohh... paradox!

 

[frankthedm]

Maybe I'm just being prickly because of lack of sleep, but are you REALLY implying that the only reason I'd want near-human intelligence animals is because I want to fit a political agenda? Because that's what you seem to be implying in my sleep deprived mind.

No, I am saying those with pro-environment political agendas have often portrayed dolphins in a highly positive manner. If you want a game that has generous stats for a dolphin, looking at the rule sets made by people with stated pro-environment political agendas would find a game that has generous stats for dolphins.

White Wolf stated their political agendas in the afterward of there W:tA hardcover. There is a cool illo of a Black spiral dancer diving with its patiaga wings outstretched right above the text.

Blue Planet is often derided for being ‘eco-preachy’ in the 1st edition of their game. I remember listening to their representative talk about the game back at the 1997 GenCon on how they even got a marine biologist to help with their setting…

As far as why you want dolphins and chimps stated out as near-human intelligence animals, you know why more than I do.

 

[D.Shaffer]

Out of curiosity, to which animals are you referring, and what level of intellect do you think best fits them?

The one that stood out was the Octopus. I'd have moved it up to 2 as the stuff I've seen puts its intelligence on the level of dogs and cats, which I'd also place in 2 with other easilly trained animals. But that's probably debateable.

 

[Infiniti2000]

One thing's for sure, though, an Int 3 rabbit could spell intelligence.


I'm kidding, Bront, kidding! Sheesh, someone had to say it. I know everyone was thinking it.

 

[Rystil Arden]

No, I am saying those with pro-environment political agendas have often portrayed dolphins in a highly positive manner. If you want a game that has generous stats for a dolphin, looking at the rule sets made by people with stated pro-environment political agendas would find a game that has generous stats for dolphins.

White Wolf stated their political agendas in the afterward of there W:tA hardcover. There is a cool illo of a Black spiral dancer diving with its patiaga wings outstretched right above the text.

Blue Planet is often derided for being ‘eco-preachy’ in the 1st edition of their game. I remember listening to their representative talk about the game back at the 1997 GenCon on how they even got a marine biologist to help with their setting…

As far as why you want dolphins and chimps stated out as near-human intelligence animals, you know why more than I do.

Many neurobiologists and AI researchers believe that humans and animals like chimps share in all of the core competencies. The human's advantage is the ability to put two concepts together to make another without limit. Certainly no one would try to claim that chimps or dolphins could have Int 12, or even 10 or 8 if 10 is average for a human. It doesn't mean that the Chimp's aren't over 99% genetically identical to us humans. It just means that even the brainiest chimp is not as smart as any but the most fundamentally mentally retarded human.

The way I might handle a scale without forcing the animals to have almost no skill points like the current system is to create an Animal Intelligence (Ex) special quality and then just rate the animals on their own scale that is under that of humans. Haven't ever tried this, but it might make it easier and eliminate that weird "3 Int character picks half-orc and doesn't lose any Int because it can't go below 3" problem too.

 

[D.Shaffer]

If you want a game that has generous stats for a dolphin, looking at the rule sets made by people with stated pro-environment political agendas would find a game that has generous stats for dolphins.

The thing is, I dont WANT to play a different game, I want to play DnD. I never mentioned wanting to play a different game and I'm honestly not sure why your only listed possible solution to my perceived problem with the animal type is 'Play a different game'.

For arguments sake, if you postulate a fantasy race of intelligent (Int 10 avg) big cats, (Ratha's Creature by Clare BEll springs to mind) what type do you categorise them? They cant be Animals as they're too intelligent. Most people I know would cringe at the idea of classifying them as Humanoid as they lack hands. Magical Beast is definitely open, and a valid type, but it results in a creature with a stat line above that of a humanoid. Further issues with Magical Beast crop up if you wanted to make such a critter available as a starting PC race (Dont laugh, I've had players who'd like to do it)

 

[Klaus]

Magical Beast fits the bill. After all, it's no different from an Awakened animal, and those are magical beasts. Of course, there's the whole opposeable thumbs thing getting in the way of it being a PC race, though...