Animate Dead and Arcane Necromancy

[Eolin]

This might belong in House Rules, but:

Is there a good reason for the arcane Animate Dead to be a level higher than the Divine Equivalent?

I have a game world in which I want Arcane Necromancers to be at least as good and probably better at necromancy than the divine equivalent.

Divine spellcasters have the following:
Quicker access to animation spells.
Turn/rebuke undead
conversion to damaging/healing spells to undead.

I think I should at least make arcane Animate Dead a lower spell level. Perhaps even 2nd level -- zombies and skeletons aren't that powerful, afterall.

What other changes would shift the balance between clerics and necromancers?

 

[Bardsandsages]

Well, if I'm thinking it through to the not-so-logical conclusion....

Divine spellcasters are agents of the gods. And the gods control life and death. Therefore, divine spellcasters should in fact have an easier time controlling the energies of life and death (and by extension..undeath) than arcane spellcasters.

Arcane magic is about manipulating the energies of the universe, not weilding the powers granted by the gods. Different mentalities...different focuses.

A true necromancer should have some levels in both divine and arcane dark magics, demonstrating a true complete command over both channels.

 

[lukelightning]

Plus, literature and myths frequently depict necromancers as serving some dark power. And face it, "real" zombies are the provenance of Voodoo priests or voodoo sorcerers who work in a magico-religious framework.

 

[Dr. Prunesquallor]

Quicker access to animation spells.
Turn/rebuke undead
conversion to damaging/healing spells to undead.

I would have no problem (thematically) assigning these abilities (minus turning) to arcane casters. It might cause issues with balance, but I could easily see a setting where arcane casters muck about with the laws of the universe and upset the natural order, creating undead and abberations, while divine casters are committed to setting things right.

I know there are "gods of undeath" in many settings, but it always struck me as a little strange because I see gods as ordering the natural world and undead are almost always presented (even in settings with gods of undeath) as unnatural. Aspiring to undeath or forcing it on another would be a rebellion against that order.

Perhaps a boosted arcane necromancer in such a setting would be corrupted by the energies he employees, becoming more corpse-like as he grows in power. You could use the Dread Necromancer from "Heroes of Horror"

I do agree with Bardsandsages on the on what seems to be the reasoning behind the default assumptions, though.

I say, for what its worth, run with it. Let us know how it turns out.

 

[The_Gneech]

IIRC, the "big, bad necromancer villain" writeup in DMG II was sor/clr/mystic theurge for just that reason.

-TG

 

[drothgery]

There's always Heroes of Horror Dread Necromancers for arcane undead-controlling, on a path to lichdom nastiness ...

 

[Eolin]

Indeed, the default theme does have clerics and godly power as having more to do with undeath than does arcane power. You are absolutely correct on that ... all.

But in a world such that arcane magic has to do with the "unnatural" rebirth of animating dead corpses, how should necromancers be boosted?

Dr. Prunesquallor, I don't have Heroes of Horror and my FLGS is vaguely far away. Without detailing someone else's IP, can you tell me how that Dread Necromancer works? Is that the class where at lvl 20 you become a lich?

I do like the idea of necromancers becoming corrupted -- then again, I also like the idea of evocers become more like a chosen element, of Diviners going slowly insane from seeing too much of the past/future, and illusionists hardly knowing what is real. We don't see enough of that in the RAW, I'd say.

would adding the inflict spells to the sorcerer/wizard list counteract the problems? Should animate dead, etc be made lower level?

The Warlock, I think, has a really good power with "The Dead Walk" -- animate dead, but if you do not have the material component, the dead are only around for one minute / level.

Somewhere are there summon undead spells, iirc. Do they summon undead from nowhere, or require the use of a corpse?

I do rather fancy the idea of 9 summon undead spells, which create a temporary undead from a corpse. To make it permanent would, as is now, require a material component.

What thinks you of that notion?

 

[Dr. Prunesquallor]

I just remembered Clark Ashton Smith's "Zothique" setting, which may give you a bit of inspiration. It's essentially a far future earth under a dying sun where magic has reasserted itself and necromancy and various forms of devil worship seem to be the principle occupations of the decadent inhabitants. One short story that stuck in my mind involved a necromancer getting eaten by the charnel god Mordiggian while attempting, IIRC, to reanimate the corpse of a pretty girl he had an interest in.

G. R. Hager statted it up for D20 and has it posted as a pdf.

http://www.eldritchdark.com/articles/criticism/30/zothique-d20-system-game-guide

 

[Dr. Prunesquallor]

As drothgery mentioned, I believe it is. I don't have it myself but it stuck in my mind. I was looking at it last week and went for "Lords of Madness" instead.

 

[Ace]

This might belong in House Rules, but:

Is there a good reason for the arcane Animate Dead to be a level higher than the Divine Equivalent?

I have a game world in which I want Arcane Necromancers to be at least as good and probably better at necromancy than the divine equivalent.

Divine spellcasters have the following:
Quicker access to animation spells.
Turn/rebuke undead
conversion to damaging/healing spells to undead.

I think I should at least make arcane Animate Dead a lower spell level. Perhaps even 2nd level -- zombies and skeletons aren't that powerful, afterall.

What other changes would shift the balance between clerics and necromancers?

I make Animate Dead level the same for both classes.

The easiest solution I have seen to really beef up Arcane necromancers is the kinda sorta official in 3e Bind Undead Feat from Van Richtens Guide to the Walking Dead.

In a nut shell -- by spending 7xp per hit die of the Undead at the time of creation the Undead in question comes under your control and does not count against your HD limit

There were a lesser and greater version of the feat -- I'd just figure there is one version


Give this to your Wizard necromancer al-- the Corpse Crafter, Hardened and Nimble Bones feats --- At high level you have feats to spare after all

Than set back and blast away with you energy substituted cold based spells augmented with Lord of the Uttercold (from Complete Arcane)

Your fireball does say 36 points -- even if they save your guys are healed 18 -- they aren't hurt by it at all as they have cold immunity and do not need to save

At high level you can do very nasty things like hit a village with fell animated cold fireball and raise the villagers to your army immediately.

Use your maximize rod for a more fun -- Black Lore of Moil Uttercold Maximized Cone Of Cold does 90 points plus 3d6 extra negative damage -- its heals and average of 45 to your guys...

Clerics can rebuke but Wizard Necros can do a lot more.

speaking of Clerics dealing with them is easy -- send the dead you have not permanently bound to you -- rinse repeat till all turning is done than send in the bound big nasties.