Annoying Elves

[hexgrid]

I largely agreee, but... if the Elf in question has a high Charisma score, then being an egotistical, snobby, !@#$! that nobody could hope to like is actually way out of character (regardless of whether or not he looks like Fabio). If this is the case, he should either reign in that attitude or the DM should knock a few points off of the Elf's Charisma score so that it reflects the completely reprehensible, elitist, snob that the player is portraying.

I would think that someone with high charisma would be better at being intentionally rude that some with low charisma.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

I would think that someone with high charisma would be better at being intentionally rude that some with low charisma.

... and would be, largely speaking, better at making you believe he just might be right, you are beneath him ...

 

[Warbringer]

In Warhammer, the elves and eldar refer to humans as mon-keigh

 

[jdrakeh]

I would think that someone with high charisma would be better at being intentionally rude that some with low charisma.

I could see that if Charisma only measured a character's force of personality, but it also measures their persuasiveness and personal magnetism. Generally speaking, abrasive, arrogant, snots are not very persuasive or well-liked (regardless of how good they look or how forceful they are).

[Edit: I think somebody who plays a character with an extremely high CHA as an intentionally unfriendly, blatantly ofensive, racist jerk is breaking character as defined by the RAW, much as somebody who plays an etremely low INT character as a genius is breaking character in that same regard].

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

I could see that if Charisma only measured a character's force of personality, but it also measures their persuasiveness and personal magnetism. Generally speaking, abrasive, arrogant, snots are not very persuasive or well-liked (regardless of how good they look).

Nah... a charismatic elf with ranks in Bluff and Intimidate but none in Diplomacy can be very rude and are very good at making people feel bad.

Maybe that's the elven problem - only a few actually bother to take ranks in Diplomacy. It certainly seems like that in every fantasy novel involving elves I've read

 

[JoeGKushner]

In Warhammer, the elves and eldar refer to humans as mon-keigh

Yeah, in another recent game I was in, one of the other players of a wood elf was using that terminology up and down for the first few sessions. Perhaps that's where this elf gets his ideas from?

 

[werk]

I have a character playing a sun elf (+int) wizard IMC and he plays the same way, snobbish, haughty, etc. I think it is spot on for his race and background, a lesser noble shunned by his family for being a jerk. We have another elf in the party, a green or wood elf (+str), who plays the quiet, strong type, also spot on.

When I played an 'elf' in another campaign, I played him strait-up, like a human, because he was a paladin of Tyr.

I've never had much of a problem with players roleplaying racial stereotypes, so long as they are in line with the character. Nor do I understand all the elf hate on these boards...at all.

If I were in the game, playing a non-elf, and one called me a monkey more than once, he'd be instructed not to call me or any other party members monkeys again unless he wants his ears removed and shoved up his pee-hole...then I'd prolly scratch my butt and sniff it.

 

[jdrakeh]

Nah... a charismatic elf with ranks in Bluff and Intimidate but none in Diplomacy can be very rude and are very good at making people feel bad.

I think you're missing the point - I meant to imply that, according to the RAW, it isn't possible for a rude, abrasive, racist jerk to have a high charisma as the two concepts are mutually exclusive (well, as the RAW defines Charisma, anyhow). Your 'charismatic elf' ain't charismatic if he's constantly talking down to people, ridiculing them, or frequently standing on the racial superiority soapbox. He's a jerk. It's a case of ability score not at all reflecting character behavior.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

I think you're missing the point - I meant to imply that, according to the RAW, it isn't possible for a rude, abrasive, racist jerk to have a high charisma as the two concepts are mutually exclusive (well, as the RAW defines Charisma, anyhow). Your 'charismatic elf' ain't charismatic if he's constantly talking down to people, ridiculing them, or frequently standing on the racial superiority soapbox. He's a jerk. It's a case of ability score not at all reflecting character behavior.

I'm going to have to disagree with you. I think the problem here is that Charisma is being used as a substitute for Diplomacy - according to the RAW.

And of course, by the RAW a paladin has little ch oice but to stand on a soapbox, and yet they're expected to be charismatic. It's also possible to find rude sorcerers with no social skills.

 

[I'm A Banana]

I think you're missing the point - I meant to imply that, according to the RAW, it isn't possible for a rude, abrasive, jerk to have a high charisma as the two concepts are mutually exclusive (well, as the RAW defines Charisma, anyhow).

I disagree. The concept of charismatic jerks is *very* ingrained, not just in D&D and fantasy, but in Reality. Some of the most charismatic people I know -- the most perusasive, the most compelling, the most likely to be the person you talk to in a crowded party -- are also the most incendiary, contradictory, narrowminded, rude, abrasive jerks in the world.

But despite that...or BECAUSE of it...they grab the attention in the room. Not nessecarily for the positive, but EVERYONE will haven an opinion of them (and most will agree with the rude, abrasive jerk). "Girls only like jerks" and "Guys are attracted to heinous wenches" are folk-wisdom evidence of this tendancy. It's not universal, but it is widespread. Think of how the rich and powerful snobs of the world treat those "lower" on the scale...think of how demanding some actors can be of simple service staff, think of how much of a completely unpleasant person some music stars are (Rap stars in particular in the modern-day, but the cliche hair band of the '80s bears this out, too).

These people are CHARISMATIC, they have a strong personality and get people to do what they want, but they are not always pleasant people. It just takes a high Wisdom to see through their charisma and notice what pure jerks their being -- a wisdom that most people don't have, a wisdom in excess of their charisma.

The charismatic can be egotistical jerks -- indeed, in some conceptualizations, they *tend* to be egotistical jerks.