Annoying the DM

[Prince Atom]

Another one of my players hasn't played D&D much since 3E came out. He's got a sorcerer, and he doesn't include me (the DM) in his decisions.

He recently leveled up to 9th, and neglected to let me know which spell he took. This, I can live with; I'll just ask him.

But sometimes he comes up with "cunning" plans; I see him snickering in the corner of the couch -- "Hey, what's so funny?" "Oh, you'll find out!"

It's like he doesn't think any surprises will be surprises at all if he shares them or lets the cat out of the bag. Then, when he springs it, half the time there's some part of the rules that foul him up, so he gripes.

I guess I just need to be firm and insist that he not keep plans secret. I think it fosters an adversarial relationship, when if he just asked for something I would very happily work it out with him.

I'm just grousing right now. Don't feel you have to respond, seriously.

TWK
[/vent]

 

[Mercule]

As a player, I've chewed on other players for trying to keep their plans secret from the DM. As a DM, it's a pretty sure way to get your character to go *ZOT*.

It's one thing to just not mention things. As a DM, I really don't want to micromanage the PCs. I don't know what spells are in the PC's books, what their exact hps are, etc. And I really don't care 99.999% of the time, so long as they're playing fair.

However, as DM, I'm a neutral party responsible for administering the rules as well as keeping play rolling and determining the actions of NPCs. It's very bad form to force a competitive relationship with the DM.

I.e. he's peeing in the pool, and it's okay to be irritated.

 

[William_2]

I think it is a great policy to quickly check each player’s sheet when they level, just for an extra set of eyes computing things, and because the DM should have a ballpark idea of what characters can do that is new. I like to have spot and listen figures for myself, for example, as well as MS and Hide. I don’t think players should ever know how well they did on any of those rolls (and don’t believe you can retry a Hide roll, but that is a digression).
Anyway, so using that approach pretty much eliminates the problem you are describing. There is no value in a player knowing something about their character that the DM does not. Keeping info from other players is fine, but the truth is that all those numbers on the character sheet are actually for the DM’s use in running the game, and nothing else. The player is supposed to be role-playing.

 

[ken-ichi]

Of course there is the possibility that the player would like to spring his possibly briliant plan into action without the enemies mysteriously knowing about it first hand.
Even with all our good intentions sometimes even DMs can struggle with keeping out of game knowledge seperate from in game knowledge.
Possibly the player has had previous experiences where telling his secret plan has ended up with them getting nullified by his opposition before he could even enact it.
Of course briliant plans and even supposedly brilliant plans can work even better if the DM knows about them ahead of time and can work with the player to make the whole experience more exciting and fullfilling. Like having your plan to ambush the enemy work spectacularily, but without absolutely destroying the intended encounter, the DM can alter his encounter in advance to include your ambush plans making the whole encounter much more involved and rewarding to participate in.
I don't think the new feat you chose or new spell you gained from leveling up is the sort of thing you can or should keep secret from your DM. Maybe he just has not fully decided on the spell he wants to take.

 

[Rel]

As a GM, I enjoy being surprised. I like it when the PC's do things I don't expect (thankfully it happens all the time). So I would not be bothered by not knowing in advance what new spells the Sorcerer has.

That said, if he whips out some big "surprise" spell combo and then it doesn't work because the rules don't work the way he thinks they do, that's his problem. If he had told me what he planned in advance then I could have warned him that he was misreading the rules.

 

[The Grumpy Celt]

As a player I’ve known of DM who will on the spot readjust their plots, plans, strategies and tactics based upon what the players are both doing and planning to do – even if the NPC (both monsters and sentient beings) have no way of knowing what the PCs are doing and planning to do.

Some even justify this behavior by saying they are the DMs, as though that position is a kind of ethical blank check allowing them to do what ever they want to they players and that the players are ethical obliged to lay their and take the beating or hit the highway.

Not telling the spell selected, a minor issue. Not telling his intended plots or plans, a completely legitimate strategy.

 

[Thornir Alekeg]

As a DM I understand exactly what you are talking about, but as a player I admit I like to do the same thing. The difference is that I make sure I fully understand the rules before I pull my "surprise" and am ready to run through them quickly if the DM is unclear on them. If I am not sure about how something will be ruled, I will consult the DM ahead of time so that when I try it, I won't end up stopping the game for 5-15 minutes for a rules look-up and discussion.

As long as the player is clear about the rules when they pull a suprise on me, I enjoy having players do this to me.

 

[swrushing]

You pays your money you takes your chances.

In temrs of actual stuff, if they don't share their plans, they miss out on the assistance, aide and suggestions others can provide, which can be good if things are complicated. So thats usually a downside.

As for Gm reaction, i too like being surprised so its fine with me. however, in all honesty, if i do know before hand i might react differently and alter the script, to highlight the plan and work in "clever" synergies and have better lines prepared... not to hose your plan. Still, my improv skills are good enough that i can usually handle it either way.

 

[Mystery Man]

I actually like it when my players have some sort of "secret plan" they don't tell me about right away. Like if they set a trap for something for example or make up some battle plan for an assault on a keep. I will actually leave the room so they can strategize. They're all very good with the rules so it isn't very often I'll get to wipe the smug looks off their faces with a ruling. And some of the stuff they come up with is pretty cool so I'll grant some leeway when I can.

But sometimes he comes up with "cunning" plans; I see him snickering in the corner of the couch -- "Hey, what's so funny?" "Oh, you'll find out!"

It looks like you pretty much can tell when he's about to pull something. Since your friend has such a crappy poker face just let him know that he had better be sure the stunt he's about to pull is within the boundaries of the rules beforehand.

 

[howandwhy99]

I actually like it when my players have some sort of "secret plan" they don't tell me about right away. Like if they set a trap for something for example or make up some battle plan for an assault on a keep. I will actually leave the room so they can strategize. They're all very good with the rules so it isn't very often I'll get to wipe the smug looks off their faces with a ruling. And some of the stuff they come up with is pretty cool so I'll grant some leeway when I can.

Really. I think this has to be one of the best things about DMing. I sprang a little surprise by the name of Cyrus the Black on my DM (Ref) a while ago. He didn't know the character's true intentions until they were spilled in game. You can read about it by following the link in my sig.