Another Cease and Desist Letter: 4E Powercards

If this was his prediction verbatim, then his prediction is correct. I have chosen the OGL version and rejected the changes of 4E. There are many, many others like me.

If his prediction was that MOST people or ALL people would do so, then I agree, his prediction seems to be incorrect. (But without the lack of real data, who knows?)

I'd have to agree with you. I am eagerly awaiting the final version of Pathfinder as well as Fantasy Craft and Song of Ice and Fire. Two OGL and a spin off of the OGL. I've also picked up Ubiquity which is a new system used in Hollow Earth Expedition and post apocalyptic "Desolation." The point being, that despite having mixed feelings about 4e and owning just about every book to date, I'm looking for something better than 4e. Heck even Arcanis' possible variant OGL is sounding promising.

Another way of seeing how well D&D is doing is by looking at Amazon's ratings. Their down right horrible for the most part with the average for the corebooks being 3 stars.

Until OGL has had a chance to weigh in against D&D you really can't say that his prediction is false. I think we're just getting ready to see how wrong or right he really was come the end of the year or a year from now.
 

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IIRC he predicted "the majority of players" would reject it. Which apparently didn't happen.

I would argue this. I know many people that bought the core books, tried it, and shelved it.

There is no empirical evidence what so ever for this stand. Anecdotal is all you will have. Sales will not prove ryan dancey wrong. What are people playing?

In my two stores (Ifrequent them I do not own them), I see Magic and Warhammer MOST, followed by OGL games mostly MUTANTS AND MASTERMINDS and D20 modern. I ask alot of these gamers why, they say they no longer liked D&D and largely abandoned it.

I did not abandon it, I play 3.5 and WHFRP.

Anecdotal only I understand, but this makes me convinced 4e is not the master of the market place.
 

Going back on topic I also think that it would have been better for WotC not to send a C&D but a letter stating that with the pending release of the actual cards that the site conduct a review and remove any material that might become an infringement upon release. Thereby warning that a C&D would result once WotC had an actual product on store shelves.
 

That's ridiculous. And it shows that you simply don't have a clue when it comes to the Power Card creation scene here on ENWorld. I'm quite positive that none of us who made designs of power cards are WotC plants.

I did not call or imply you are a plant. Please think a bit on the message before rushing to put words into my mouth. Is it so hard to see what I am talking about? Lets take the discussion out on a different level. Do we have a clue when people need to vote about elections what is going on? Of course not every voter expressing his political opinion is a plant. A vast minority of them is. But that vast minority is the minority that invests more money and has more interest into it than all the others individually.
In marketing and big business, if you could, you would see things a lot, but a lot stranger than this. As in elections, legal and illegal. These strange things happen behind the scenes. But it is not hard to figure out they happen and some times we actually find out about a tiny bit of them.
Conspiracy theories? Yes. But to say that strange things such as this do not or have not happened is very naive IMO.
 

Honestly this makes me wonder how well WotC's products and DDI are doing... you'd think if they were doing extraordinary they wouldn't be sweating little things like this. But that's neither here nor there and admittedly I could be totally off base with that.

just as a reply to Imaro's comment, you may be interested in this post over at The Core Mechanic for some details:

Hasbro Q4 2008 Earning Statement
 
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Going back on topic I also think that it would have been better for WotC not to send a C&D but a letter stating that with the pending release of the actual cards that the site conduct a review and remove any material that might become an infringement upon release. Thereby warning that a C&D would result once WotC had an actual product on store shelves.

The problem is that if WotC doesn't defend their trademarks now, they cannot defend them later. There is a principle in law that amounts to, "You let me do it before, you can't start complaining now"- WotC simply doesn't have the option to ignore known large-scale infringement.
 

Going back on topic I also think that it would have been better for WotC not to send a C&D but a letter stating that with the pending release of the actual cards that the site conduct a review and remove any material that might become an infringement upon release. Thereby warning that a C&D would result once WotC had an actual product on store shelves.
The C&D didn't have anything to do with the release of power cards. It had everything to do with the fact that there were verbatim direct copies of the powers from the Player's Handbook, et al.

Also, why threaten a threatening letter? That's all a C&D is. In effect they say, "We see that you are using copyrighted material from books we published. Please remove the copyrighted material or else we may be forced to sue you for copyright infringement." That's it. I don't understand why people are getting hung up on the C&D.

As someone who made power cards and then put them up online back in summer 2008, I understand both the market for the product and the desires people had for pre-printed cards. After awhile I came to my senses and stopped making pre-printed cards because it IS copyright infringement. I focused on creating templates and left it at that. I use power cards from MSE that I co-designed, but for my own use and not distributed across the internet, which is neither copyright infringement nor illegal.

The issue is the distribution of copyrighted material not licensed away by the copyright holder. If WotC had distributed the powers under a Creative Commons License, then as long as the website was following the CCL there wouldn't be a problem. But they didn't. They own the whole copyright and no one has a right to distribute that without the express permission of WotC.

To put it another way - say I write a book of short stories (or poems, which is more likely for me) and then I publish them. If I go onto a website and someone is distributing some, but not all, of my poems that is copyright infringement. If I post a few of those poems on my website to garner interest, that's fine. But anyone who then takes that from my website and posts it on their's is also infringing my copyright.

Copyright gives the author of a product sole control over its distribution and protects their "right" to own the "copy" (that is the text of the product) until the date of his death +70 years.
 

The problem is that if WotC doesn't defend their trademarks now, they cannot defend them later. There is a principle in law that amounts to, "You let me do it before, you can't start complaining now"- WotC simply doesn't have the option to ignore known large-scale infringement.

But... They *did* ignore it up till now and them getting their own product ready.
 

But... They *did* ignore it up till now and them getting their own product ready.

earler in this thread scott rouse told us they found out about it at the end of Jan...they took less then a month to issue a C&D...how is that ignoreing it?


The web site in question had approximately 1825 full text power card entries. Of those 1 was a homebrew power. It also used Player's Handbook trade dress and the Dungeons & Dragons logo. The GSL does not allow for this type of use. FWIW, I saw this site for the first time on January 5th.

Now who here sereisly wants to defend this web site the broke all those laws??
 

I'd have to agree with you. I am eagerly awaiting the final version of Pathfinder as well as Fantasy Craft and Song of Ice and Fire. Two OGL and a spin off of the OGL.

A SoIF is definitely not a spin off, by the hobby's senses. It is what is called as "independent"? "Not D20"?
 

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